What about slave trade?

[fortunajmsg]

For about 300 years, European ships carried about 12 million Africans to America. This was one of the three pillars of the triangular trade, which enriched the colonial elites of the major European powers. Is it possible that this fact was properly represented in EU4? Certainly, this trade changed the demographics of much of America and West Africa.

Also, do not forget the slave trade conducted by barbary pirates. In this case, the slaves came from the Mediterranean and Atlantic coasts. From Cornwall to Greece.

I propose that there is some way to establish trading posts on the African coast, as actually happened. These trading posts would be responsible for supplying slaves to the American plantations and mines. And, in turn, these American plantations and mines, would benefit the colonial powers.

 

[pingupower]

Well some colonies will have a slave ressource and I think the new trade system will simulate slave trade quite well.

 

[Attalus]

There is a trade route going from Ivory Coast to Brazil and Carribean so it must represent the slave trade i presume

 

[fortunajmsg]

Well some colonies will have a slave ressource and I think the new trade system will simulate slave trade quite well.

EU3 did not reflect in a right manner the importance of this trade. I have no problems with slaves as a trade resource. But it should also represent the demographic issue for both the Americas and Africa. It may include some kind of positive modifier of population growth in America and one negative in Africa. And trading posts need not be located in any province, they could be national modifiers. Then, these modifiers should be dependant on naval and trade capacity of each country, as well as on decisions.

I think there are many opportunities and ways to represent it.

 

[fortunajmsg]

There is a trade route going from Ivory Coast to Brazil and Carribean so it must represent the slave trade i presume

Yes, that should be a crucial trade route in the hypothetical development of the slave trade between Africa and America. But how I would have said in my last post, EU4 should be add modifiers or something that represents the true importance of the slave trade in the economic development of America, in the poverty of West Africa and in the huge revenues in the elites of european atlantic ports (Lisbon, London, Amsterdam...).

 

[pingupower]

EU3 did not reflect in a right manner the importance of this trade. I have no problems with slaves as a trade resource. But it should also represent the demographic issue for both the Americas and Africa. It may include some kind of positive modifier of population growth in America and one negative in Africa. And trading posts need not be located in any province, they could be national modifiers. Then, these modifiers should be dependant on naval and trade capacity of each country, as well as on decisions.

I think there are many opportunities and ways to represent it.

IIRC demographics will no longer play a role.

For me the trade route is quite enough. However I would like some special features. Maybe some bonuses for said colonies and more revolt risk or something.

 

[Hugus]

Well, at the very least the overall availability of slaves in the trade system should have an impact on the production efficiency of the colonies in the Americas (particularly those producing tobacco, sugar, cotton, coffee...) If I'm not mistaken, this was already the case in EU3

IIRC demographics will no longer play a role.

Sorry for my ignorance, what does that mean? Will the number of people in a province have no weight on economics?

 

[VolitionNewlove]

Sorry for my ignorance, what does that mean? Will the number of people in a province have no weight on economics?

Provinces will no longer have a population number, meaning there's no measure for how large a population is.

I'd hope that trading with slaves would be as lucrative as gold, but should cause potential powerful rebellions. After all, was Haiti not a thing? As a side note, slave rebellion-formed states should instantly have slavery outlawed.

 

[minke19104]

Is Slavery and Judaism still a taboo like in previus PI games?

 

[dskod1]

if slavery was taboo would this conversation still be going and would slavery be represented in both Victoria 2 and EU3?

 

[minke19104]

Slavery in vic 2 is set on a fixed number and their POPs do not grow. EU IIII only had slavery trades and the effect on trade is only conceptualized in bonuses.

 

[unmerged(46341)]

Slavery in vic 2 is set on a fixed number and their POPs do not grow. EU IIII only had slavery trades and the effect on trade is only conceptualized in bonuses.

That's not quite true. You can colonize and enslave swaths of Africa in V2.

 

[AndrewT]

Is Slavery and Judaism still a taboo like in previus PI games?

*sigh* Slaves were explicitly a "trade good" in EU3 - which you have registered. Did you never actually play it?

Judaism per se is NOT taboo, it just did not rise to the level of significance to make its depiction in, say, EU3 worthwhile.

The only such topic that is taboo, AFAIK, is the holocaust (and WWII slave labour in general), for which I take it no justification is necessary.

 

[smeggy]

Will slave trade affect the culture of the area's where these people are put to work?

 

[Badpojken]

Will slave trade affect the culture of the area's where these people are put to work?

Since population numbers etc have been removed from EU 4 I think it's quite safe to assume that the game will not simulate large emigration of specific types of people outside of possible events but I imagine that the "convert culture" action will handle most of the culture changes of the game.

Europa Universalis isn't exactly focusing on populations in the same way that Victoria is, for which I am personally thankful

Perhaps this is because the governments of the time did not have the same amount of control over their subjects as they had in victorias era?

 

[khardinal]

Is Slavery and Judaism still a taboo like in previus PI games?

I think not, but I'm sure that Judaism in Slavery is taboo

 

[Illanair]

Is Slavery and Judaism still a taboo like in previus PI games?

if slavery was taboo would this conversation still be going and would slavery be represented in both Victoria 2 and EU3?

Slavery in vic 2 is set on a fixed number and their POPs do not grow. EU IIII only had slavery trades and the effect on trade is only conceptualized in bonuses.

Not a taboo per se, but I'm pretty sure Paradox handled it the way they did in EU3 to avoid any overly racial or negative issues. There were no slave trade events, or decisions as far as I recall in EU3. Nor did your colonial population grow any faster because you were trading in slaves. I don't recall reading anything to suggest EU4 handles it any different either.

 

[minke19104]

Not a taboo per se, but I'm pretty sure Paradox handled it the way they did in EU3 to avoid any overly racial or negative issues. There were no slave trade events, or decisions as far as I recall in EU3. Nor did your colonial population grow any faster because you were trading in slaves. I don't recall reading anything to suggest EU4 handles it any different either.

Thats what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[fortunajmsg]

Provinces will no longer have a population number, meaning there's no measure for how large a population is.

I'd hope that trading with slaves would be as lucrative as gold, but should cause potential powerful rebellions. After all, was Haiti not a thing? As a side note, slave rebellion-formed states should instantly have slavery outlawed.

Yes, I refer to the tax revenue in fact. As slave trade enlarge, the tax revenue in the Americas should be higher; and in Africa it should be lower. And the idea of an increase chance of rebellion may be a way to limit the intensity of the slave trade. For example, a X power, with colonies in the Caribbean and trade posts in Africa. In a crucial moment of social tension, there would be a slave rebellion, which obligate this power to slow its slave trade.

 

[Illanair]

I wouldn't say the African income would lessen - plenty of African exports that the "locals" can help export.