What a Guy! - An Empire of Normannia AAR

[DensleyBlair]

Interesting how many Normans are in Africa. Wonder what it means for European history to have the strongest empire's heartlands outside of Europe?

Good point. Europe's whole centre of gravity has shifted downwards massively. Would be interesting to imagine the Normano–Berber kingdoms moving into the first age of colonialism, although not so savoury to dwell upon the possible logistical implications of controlling West Africa already…

Who knows? that little Norman beach along the Red Sea by Sinai might even negate the need to go looking for convenient new routes to the Indies any time soon…

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Good point. Europe's whole centre of gravity has shifted downwards massively. Would be interesting to imagine the Normano–Berber kingdoms moving into the first age of colonialism, although not so savoury to dwell upon the possible logistical implications of controlling West Africa already…

Who knows? that little Norman beach along the Red Sea by Sinai might even negate the need to go looking for convenient new routes to the Indies any time soon…

They sell and export even more slaves in a drive to make Africa completely Norman as a continent? Possibly.

It certainly will change European history having two huge European (ish) empires on its borders (the Romans and the normans). Iberia is going to be Norman by the end of the next century so it looks like its entirely down to alba and whoever ends up unifying france to colonise amercia.

Africa will presumably be mostly under the control of the normans, and their client states. With the middle east locked up by the Romans, the new European powers are actually a little limited in how their colonial empires can expand. Probably split the amercias between them, try to get ports set up on the southernmost tips of Africa (which will lead to some impressive wars and diplomacy later on. No scramble for Africa potentially. Huge implications), in order to get to India.

If the byzantine follow the decline of the otromans (as their land literally gets less valuable because the silk road doesn't exist anymore and overland trade become worthless), then there could be quite a bit of conflict over successor states and piece-meal chipping away by all their neighbours.

Normania shouldn't have that problem because all their terroity is flush with natural resources of wide variety. If they can keep their military up to date, they should be fairly stable and strong theough the early colonial years. Any issues with other Europeans will probably be over Italy, the eventual iberian border and sub-saharan Africa (as other empires try to get ports there for trade).

It'd be interesting to see what happens next. Personally I don't think the Normans would or should focus on the colonial game more than expanding and securing their actual empire to engulf all of iberia, some actual defensive border in Italy and then sieving as much of Africa as they can. But sailing and pillaging is in their blood, so south amercia may well be visited by the normans in due course...

 

[Nikolai]

It it just me or the Sub-Saharan Hautevilles seem... interesting to say the least!

An enjoyable AAR- and 133 Houses, 1504 living members. Tancred, the founder of the dynasty, would be proud!

Great work!

I worked hard on spreading Norman culture in north africa, but the rest is all the AI!

And yes, Tancred would be immensely proud!

The amount of Norman culture in sub-Saharan Africa is… uncomfortable.

Congratulations on finishing. The result was never in any doubt, of course, but it's always fun to see the Hautevilles reach the astronomical heights which seem to be theirs by destiny. What does it mean that the dynasty contains 133 houses – is that a count of cadet branches?

Houses are cadet branches, yes. As I mentioned above, I stopped spreading it a long time ago. Much if it is the AIs doing!

Interesting how many Normans are in Africa. Wonder what it means for European history to have the strongest empire's heartlands outside of Europe?

Good point. Europe's whole centre of gravity has shifted downwards massively. Would be interesting to imagine the Normano–Berber kingdoms moving into the first age of colonialism, although not so savoury to dwell upon the possible logistical implications of controlling West Africa already…

Who knows? that little Norman beach along the Red Sea by Sinai might even negate the need to go looking for convenient new routes to the Indies any time soon…

A very good question! I think america when discovered will be for francia, Normannia and the british. But will they venture out? The reason historically was the rise of islam and the expensive trade over the silk road. Here, islam has fallen and catholicism has taken its place. Normannia even has lands close to India. So would there be a need for exploration?

 

[Nikolai]

They sell and export even more slaves in a drive to make Africa completely Norman as a continent? Possibly.

It certainly will change European history having two huge European (ish) empires on its borders (the Romans and the normans). Iberia is going to be Norman by the end of the next century so it looks like its entirely down to alba and whoever ends up unifying france to colonise amercia.

Africa will presumably be mostly under the control of the normans, and their client states. With the middle east locked up by the Romans, the new European powers are actually a little limited in how their colonial empires can expand. Probably split the amercias between them, try to get ports set up on the southernmost tips of Africa (which will lead to some impressive wars and diplomacy later on. No scramble for Africa potentially. Huge implications), in order to get to India.

If the byzantine follow the decline of the otromans (as their land literally gets less valuable because the silk road doesn't exist anymore and overland trade become worthless), then there could be quite a bit of conflict over successor states and piece-meal chipping away by all their neighbours.

Normania shouldn't have that problem because all their terroity is flush with natural resources of wide variety. If they can keep their military up to date, they should be fairly stable and strong theough the early colonial years. Any issues with other Europeans will probably be over Italy, the eventual iberian border and sub-saharan Africa (as other empires try to get ports there for trade).

It'd be interesting to see what happens next. Personally I don't think the Normans would or should focus on the colonial game more than expanding and securing their actual empire to engulf all of iberia, some actual defensive border in Italy and then sieving as much of Africa as they can. But sailing and pillaging is in their blood, so south amercia may well be visited by the normans in due course...

Interesting take! Had I had more time, obliterating Byzantium would have been on my agenda, as well as completing the takeover of Africa, where I lack some lands in Ethiopia and surroundings. As I mentioned above, Catholicism has the Middle East secured now all the way to Persia. So the dynamics to trade will differ I think.

 

[DensleyBlair]

But sailing and pillaging is in their blood, so south amercia may well be visited by the normans in due course...

This is more or less my feeling. Even if they don't need to, I reckon some Norman somewhere will soon be thinking about just getting on a ship and pointing it west for the sake of doing Norman shit.

A very good question! I think america when discovered will be for francia, Normannia and the british. But will they venture out? The reason historically was the rise of islam and the expensive trade over the silk road. Here, islam has fallen and catholicism has taken its place. Normannia even has lands close to India. So would there be a need for exploration?

Yeah, the implications of all of this are massive. Guy's world is going to end up wildly divergent from our own in terms of the history of ideas and so on, never mind the map itself. Fascinating to think about.

 

[Midnite Duke]

@Nikolai, thank you for this wonderful tale of the Normans. People from France, the British Isles, the Low Countries and Scandinavia will colonize the Americas as the continent of Normanica (formerly known as Africa) will belong to the Normans and be governed by the Normans. The smallest foreign outpost on Normanica will be met with extreme force as the Normans progress onwards to India. What is this vile talk of an exam? I for one did not sign up for any exam. @Nikolai, may you and your loved ones be blessed and protected.

 

[Nikolai]

This is more or less my feeling. Even if they don't need to, I reckon some Norman somewhere will soon be thinking about just getting on a ship and pointing it west for the sake of doing Norman shit.

Quite true. Outwards, always! I’m sure Africa further sputh would be within reach, save malaria stops them. Crusades would either have to stop soon or go into Muslim Russia or Asia/India. Soon, an eventually discovered America, by Normans or others, would be very interesting for adventurers.

Yeah, the implications of all of this are massive. Guy's world is going to end up wildly divergent from our own in terms of the history of ideas and so on, never mind the map itself. Fascinating to think about.

Really fascinating. I really love the discussion forming up here today. Mindblowing.

@Nikolai, thank you for this wonderful tale of the Normans. People from France, the British Isles, the Low Countries and Scandinavia will colonize the Americas as the continent of Normanica (formerly known as Africa) will belong to the Normans and be governed by the Normans. The smallest foreign outpost on Normanica will be met with extreme force as the Normans progress onwards to India. What is this vile talk of an exam? I for one did not sign up for any exam. @Nikolai, may you and your loved ones be blessed and protected.

Thank you for your kind words Midnite Duke! Same wishes back to you! I think you might be right on the colonizers and on Norman Africa.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Hmm. I think the nromans will focus on unifying Africa under them, unifying iberia under them, and figuring out what to do with their Italian holdings.

Then they'll probably go after the byzantine middle east and Mediterranean islands, and probably move further east still and go after persia, India and maybe beyond.

Alba and Francia will probably be the ones going after the amercias, and holding most of it between them (if there is no trouble at home). Normans may grab something somewhere but probably as a private venture rather than government initiative. The thing to note is, of course, Normania serves as a physical barrier to European trade with the far east IF THE NORMANS DO UNIFY AFRICA.

Basically, the scramble for African coastline is going to start as soon as someone first makes a fortune on sea trade with the east. Then everything has to be grabbed immediately (or the normans will inevitably grab it) starting a naval and colonial race. Hopefully the normans win, maybe with a few ports belonging to outsiders or declared free ports for all trade just to avoid the Europeans going to war.

Then the Scots and French really do have to focus on their North amercian holdings as the trade east is locked down too much by the normans.

 

[HistoryDude]

Well, this is a glorious empire...

I'm surprised an insane emperor didn't have that many... undesirable effects.

I see Byzantium going north for an Indian route, actually. In time, perhaps, they will discover Alaska...

Could easily see Byzantium (Greece-Russia), Normannia (Africa-Iberia-Italy), and a British-French alliance duking it out in the Americas. Really early World War I, anyone?

 

[El Pip]

Lewis, stop snoring! Mr Pip, if you would?

Many things have remained constant throughout this course, one of them is the utility of the sharpened poking stick.

the mind of the Emperor became clouded.

The warning signs were there when he converted to the Insular faith, even if he converted back the madness was there from an early stage. That said, would a normal man have led the charge into the walls of Constantinople? So it wasn't all bad.

I especially want to highlight the great work of Cora and Mr Pip, I hope to see you in later subjects and foresee a great academical future for you both. Or, in Mr Pip’s case, possibly as an enforcer. I see qualities there too for you, young man!

Thank you Professor, I am keenly looking forward to your next course of lectures.

Can I also just say how pleased and proud I am that my plan to do a joint-honours degree in Medieval History and Specialist Event Security is working out so well.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

That said, would a normal man have led the charge into the walls of Constantinople? So it wasn't all bad.

I mean, no normal man would run headlong into a huge brick wall, no.

Can I also just say how pleased and proud I am that my plan to do a joint-honours degree in Medieval History and Specialist Event Security is working out so well.

You're either planning on being a bouncer for the rest of your life or getting into the military industrial complex.

If the former, I'll give you a lift in my BMW (teat car extraordinaire) to the interview. If the latter, I'll probably end up defending your ass in court.

 

[Nikolai]

Hmm. I think the nromans will focus on unifying Africa under them, unifying iberia under them, and figuring out what to do with their Italian holdings.

Then they'll probably go after the byzantine middle east and Mediterranean islands, and probably move further east still and go after persia, India and maybe beyond.

Alba and Francia will probably be the ones going after the amercias, and holding most of it between them (if there is no trouble at home). Normans may grab something somewhere but probably as a private venture rather than government initiative. The thing to note is, of course, Normania serves as a physical barrier to European trade with the far east IF THE NORMANS DO UNIFY AFRICA.

Basically, the scramble for African coastline is going to start as soon as someone first makes a fortune on sea trade with the east. Then everything has to be grabbed immediately (or the normans will inevitably grab it) starting a naval and colonial race. Hopefully the normans win, maybe with a few ports belonging to outsiders or declared free ports for all trade just to avoid the Europeans going to war.

Then the Scots and French really do have to focus on their North amercian holdings as the trade east is locked down too much by the normans.

I do believe this is what could happen. I don't think Normannia would ever abandon the Pope, too much benefits for staying. All those crusades have really been s Norman endeavour from the get go. Really a huge boon to Norman power. The Byzantines would have been my focus going forward, as well as Africa.

Well, this is a glorious empire...

I'm surprised an insane emperor didn't have that many... undesirable effects.

I see Byzantium going north for an Indian route, actually. In time, perhaps, they will discover Alaska...

Could easily see Byzantium (Greece-Russia), Normannia (Africa-Iberia-Italy), and a British-French alliance duking it out in the Americas. Really early World War I, anyone?

Gameplay wise it was smooth sailing. Never a blip of any kind. Which of course was due to excellent regency wouldn't you agree. Byzantium is a weakened power. With Normannia constantly warring they have no chance of expanding effectively into anywhere...

The warning signs were there when he converted to the Insular faith, even if he converted back the madness was there from an early stage. That said, would a normal man have led the charge into the walls of Constantinople? So it wasn't all bad.

Excellent point. No one in their right mind converts to the faith of the dying Romans...

Thank you Professor, I am keenly looking forward to your next course of lectures.

Can I also just say how pleased and proud I am that my plan to do a joint-honours degree in Medieval History and Specialist Event Security is working out so well.

I'm very happy for your plans coming to fruition, my dear student!

 

[Nikolai]

I mean, no normal man would run headlong into a huge brick wall, no.

Hahaha, glorious

 

[Garrus Vakarian]

Congrats on the rare feat of finishing an AAR Nikolai. I look forward to the next one! XD It seems to be a common thing i see in CK3 as the game progresses the world usually fragments, with the exception the Byzantine Empire. Wonder if this is something that changes in future expansions. As it stands, the Byzantines are the only rival to the Normannians.

 

[Great Mantis]

I'm sorry I'm late to the party @Nikolai but I'm enjoying the tale of Normannia so far a few pages in. I'll be watching out for your next AAR

 

[Brisingr]

Congratulations on another finished AAR @Nikolai!

And yes, adding onto what others have said, there might not be much incentive to discover America, just judging by how dominant Christianity has been in this timeline. Christians and Muslims both will just sail east to India. Maybe the Chinese will discover America, and the Europeans will eventually start sailing west specifically to get to America. Fun stuff to think about.

Will you take this into EUIV?

 

[Nikolai]

Congrats on the rare feat of finishing an AAR Nikolai. I look forward to the next one! XD It seems to be a common thing i see in CK3 as the game progresses the world usually fragments, with the exception the Byzantine Empire. Wonder if this is something that changes in future expansions. As it stands, the Byzantines are the only rival to the Normannians.

Thanks! Not too rare for me, admittedly. Of my 20+ AARs over the years almost all have ended properly. I do think the ERE is sure to be nerfed in a patch soon, too.

I'm sorry I'm late to the party @Nikolai but I'm enjoying the tale of Normannia so far a few pages in. I'll be watching out for your next AAR

Glad to have you on board!

Congratulations on another finished AAR @Nikolai!

And yes, adding onto what others have said, there might not be much incentive to discover America, just judging by how dominant Christianity has been in this timeline. Christians and Muslims both will just sail east to India. Maybe the Chinese will discover America, and the Europeans will eventually start sailing west specifically to get to America. Fun stuff to think about.

Will you take this into EUIV?

Thanks! Really fun stuff, indeed. This will not be taken into EU4 I'm afraid.