Westernized tech, but Muslim Units

[digitCruncher]

For all those saying AoW sucks, I have never actually played a decent game of EU IV because the war mechanics were exceedingly obtuse, and it was basically one giant blob-fest. I have played EU III (maybe I didn't notice chaining alliances as much back then?) however, so I know just enough to be dangerous.

Anyway, I have westernized for the first time in EU IV as the Golden Horde, using the new 'If you have an awesome ruler, you can westernize whenever you want' mechanic, but don't have western troops. I have only waited 3 months, but no decision has appeared. Is there a button I need to push? Is it a random event? The westernization successful popup said that my troops should already have been westernized, but it might be a problem with the popup not being updated to EU IV.

It isn't the end of the world if it is a bug ... the tech bonus should be enough. But I would like to confirm that it is a bug before submitting a bug report.

(Oh, and it is an ironman game, which makes things a little more difficult. I wanted to get some easy achievements... ended up getting Turning the Tide, which is quite nice)

 

[Kirikano]

Not a bug. Westernization was changed a few patches back to not give western tech units. Instead, units were rebalanced so that there's no huge disparity between how strong they are, and instead each tech group peaks at a different tech level, with western being the strongest at the end but not unreasonably stronger.

Except nomads, who don't get upgrades :|

 

[AdmiralPrice]

Nomads have to reform first, in which case they change to either Muslim, Eastern, or Chinese tech groups (and their units). THEN they westernize.

 

[balmung60]

Nomads have to reform first, in which case they change to either Muslim, Eastern, or Chinese tech groups (and their units). THEN they westernize.

Not true: They can only become Muslim or Chinese tech. They get Chinese tech and units if they have a religion in the Eastern group (Shinto, Confucianism, or Buddhism) and get Muslim tech and units if they follow any other religion.

 

[digitCruncher]

Well dang. That means I will have to get my tech better than everyone else. ATM I have 25-30% 'behind' bonuses, and two full idea sets (I thought reforming needed all three of Administrative, Innovative, and Economic, so I filled out Administrative and Defensive, at the expense of tech. And then I immediately started to Westernize as soon as I reformed >.>), so I am not looking crash hot in the tech front ATM.

It should be reasonably fast to catch up, and I have Georgia as a March defending my south But until then ... ack.

Thanks all!

 

[malbung]

hello guys, im playing the Ottomans and i waited a lot to westernize... now i understand i can't get western unit... So my question is why did a bothered myself to westernize? do i have to have allways more (unit) than austria or russia?
ps: by the way is kinda stupid this change... every country that did westernization changed military unit (ottomans,persia,japan). it's not even historically accurate... And then i had enough money to buy university (18k) so why westernize?

 

[kitemasaki]

hello guys, im playing the Ottomans and i waited a lot to westernize... now i understand i can't get western unit... So my question is why did a bothered myself to westernize? do i have to have allways more (unit) than austria or russia?
ps: by the way is kinda stupid this change... every country that did westernization changed military unit (ottomans,persia,japan). it's not even historically accurate...

They balanced the units to reflect the 'historically' accurate modernization (a more appropriate term than westernize) of nations military advancements. The point of westernizing is so your tech will allow you to keep on par with the European powers. Every single nation has a troop at the end of their tech tree that is modernized. You will of course have a harder time getting to that unit if you are not westernized. It is not a bad change, and actually one of their better ones in a field of thorny bad mistakes, as it buffed the entire rest of the world by making unit pip balances (even more so with 1.8). You can try to trump up false renditions of history by saying its historically accurate that they had modernized and were the same as European troops, but that is factually ridiculous. They still were different regardless of the adoption of certain technologies and industrial advancements.

 

[Karabas1543]

hello guys, im playing the Ottomans and i waited a lot to westernize... now i understand i can't get western unit... So my question is why did a bothered myself to westernize? do i have to have allways more (unit) than austria or russia?
ps: by the way is kinda stupid this change... every country that did westernization changed military unit (ottomans,persia,japan). it's not even historically accurate... And then i had enough money to buy university (18k) so why westernize?

You westernize to remove the tech penalty. In terms of pips, your units should be generally on par with Western at the same Mil tech level. From what I hear, Ottoman troops are stronger than Western in the beginning of the game.

 

[gnome109]

You westernize to remove the tech penalty. In terms of pips, your units should be generally on par with Western at the same Mil tech level. From what I hear, Ottoman troops are stronger than Western in the beginning of the game.

Yeah Ottomans have the best early game units.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yeah Ottomans have the best early game units.

Strictly speaking, hordes have the best early game units, for a decade or two.

If you are equal on tech, the unit pips are almost never decisive; generals/discipline/#'s/morale all overpower it easily.

However, if your tech penalty isn't that high, westernizing might not be worth your time. For example, here are two empires from 1.7:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=334802299



So there are some decisions to be made in terms of what it will cost you.

 

[malbung]

Hello guys and thank you for your answers. so basically if can keep up with the European (university and focus on military) you dont need to westernize. however i have an other question, why the westernization changes (no noble officer, western designs, etc..) are not permanent? you lose them pretty fast. if they where permanent i think it would balance the game better no?

 

[oblio-]

Hello guys and thank you for your answers. so basically if can keep up with the European (university and focus on military) you dont need to westernize. however i have an other question, why the westernization changes (no noble officer, western designs, etc..) are not permanent? you lose them pretty fast. if they where permanent i think it would balance the game better no?

What changes? As in, what where they in-game, where did you see them?

 

[malbung]

When you westernize, you have modification that happen to your country (college, science academy, western training officer, no noble officer, western naval design etc..) those changes are not permanent. they last only 20 to 40 years...