"Western Focus" What is this?

[chrnno]

1) I also lack the necessary kind of patience to make the required arrangements to dismantle the HRE as an outsider.
2) Vienna's a coalition-bomb even without the HRE AE multiplier, because it is a very rich German Catholic province within the first AE range band of lots of German Catholics. (OK, it gets a bit milder after the reformation.)

What preparations? Only thing you have to do is ally the electors not allied with Austria, you can even declare on one of them to lessen the numbers of alliances. It is only if you for some reason care about the dip loss that it gets annoying to do.

And that is why I said to attack as they join? Only reasons to allow a coalition to build is if the first to join is someone you can't take on or if you aren't going to expand that way ever.

 

[josh127]

Maybe allow for other techs groups to do that too, only they have to hold it longer and it isn't free westernization but only provides a discount.

That really wouldn't create an incentive to take your ROTW nation in and challenge the strongest nations the AI can throw at you. For a city like Wien you're either going to need to carve your way through the Ottomans or hold lands along the Med. It's going to take a lot of time to get there. You're also almost definitely going to draw a coalition of most of Europe against you taking the lands that lead to it. Since you have to hold that land for a period of time, I would imagine that means you also have to actually deal with that coalition at least once. Pull it all off, why would you cut the reward and ruin the incentive?

 

[Korashy]

Nice in some guess I suppose, but I rather keep my ability to vassalize asia as ottoman

 

[grommile]

Nice in some guess I suppose, but I rather keep my ability to vassalize asia as ottoman

I honestly prefer the ability (provided by Westernization) to use an Iranian tag as a firebreak and establish trade companies in India and China

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The only problem with this mechanic is its restriction to Eastern/Ottoman. In the unlikely event that a lower tech group managed to conquer that far west and hold it a long time, it makes no sense that they couldn't do whatever the Ottomans are theoretically doing. Considering this mechanic precisely mirrors how Mughals and Qing became more settled populations, it's awkward to have the western version only be available to nearby nations.

The odds of a contested MP game allowing it or AI doing it as a Muslim or below nation are virtually nothing, so it's hard to see how this could hurt balance too.

 

[Sexual Velociraptor]

The only problem with this mechanic is its restriction to Eastern/Ottoman. In the unlikely event that a lower tech group managed to conquer that far west and hold it a long time, it makes no sense that they couldn't do whatever the Ottomans are theoretically doing. Considering this mechanic precisely mirrors how Mughals and Qing became more settled populations, it's awkward to have the western version only be available to nearby nations.

The odds of a contested MP game allowing it or AI doing it as a Muslim or below nation are virtually nothing, so it's hard to see how this could hurt balance too.

I feel like the devs have some sort of crusade against the Muslims. (and RotW.) They tend to go out of their way to assure that you'll never see RotW in top 5 unless you've taken out everyone in the top 3 tech groups yourself.

I don't agree, but I still love the game and will buy the DLC for sure the day it comes out.

 

[Korashy]

I feel like the devs have some sort of crusade against the Muslims. (and RotW.) They tend to go out of their way to assure that you'll never see RotW in top 5 unless you've taken out everyone in the top 3 tech groups yourself.

I don't agree, but I still love the game and will buy the DLC for sure the day it comes out.

RTOW got a lot of love recently. I think an Islam and Horde Centric Expansion should be up next to bring them up to everyone else's attention to detail in terms of mechanics, because not that much has changed mechanic wise for them since vanilla (except horde "nerfs")

 

[toroltao]

What I meant is, that the ottomans' abitions to westernize might be ahistorical.

Because everything about the entire westernization mechanic in EU4 is soooooooooooo historically accurate.

 

[Korashy]

Because everything about the entire westernization mechanic in EU4 is soooooooooooo historically accurate.

Real westernization obviously involves sailing around SE Asia, beating up other uncivilized nations for tech points. God I can't wait for Vicky 3.

 

[bbqftw]

Real westernization obviously involves sailing around SE Asia, beating up other uncivilized nations for tech points. God I can't wait for Vicky 3.

Don't forget surprise ganking the Portuguese in Brazil.

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

So it's now really important that Vienna doesn't fall to the Turk? Cue Winged Hussars!

 

[bbqftw]

The only problem with this mechanic is its restriction to Eastern/Ottoman. In the unlikely event that a lower tech group managed to conquer that far west and hold it a long time, it makes no sense that they couldn't do whatever the Ottomans are theoretically doing. Considering this mechanic precisely mirrors how Mughals and Qing became more settled populations, it's awkward to have the western version only be available to nearby nations.

The odds of a contested MP game allowing it or AI doing it as a Muslim or below nation are virtually nothing, so it's hard to see how this could hurt balance too.

It would also open up a really interesting strategic choice for ROTW players. All-in your tech to crush filthy westerners or go for the safer option of colony seize (though wouldn't be surprised to see that one gone...)

 

[Korashy]

It would also open up a really interesting strategic choice for ROTW players. All-in your tech to crush filthy westerners or go for the safer option of colony seize (though wouldn't be surprised to see that one gone...)

Ally Ottoman, take Vienna, + styria core, release styria as vassal, core vienna, profit?

 

[bbqftw]

Ally Ottoman, take Vienna, + styria core, release styria as vassal, core vienna, profit?

that only works if you start in Europe. You can't core through vassals on different continents. I also don't think any of the Styrian cores start adjacent to Vienna (memory is hazy though)

 

[Korashy]

that only works if you start in Europe. You can't core through vassals on different continents.

Well the westerned most hordes and north africa is the only one who could do it in a reasonable time without the tech gap getting too huge.

 

[superZAKTAN]

This is incredible. More incentive to play my favorite historical empire.

 

[josh127]

Well the westerned most hordes and north africa is the only one who could do it in a reasonable time without the tech gap getting too huge.

The Mughals was the image in my head when I brought up the argument to start. I could see a fun fight first forming the Mughals, then fighting through the Ottomans and into Wien. It wouldn't be optimal because you could surely westernize quite a bit earlier through traditional methods. But lather > rinse > repeat gets tiring after awhile, and it can be fun to do sub-optimal things. Not to mention with the point savings, it would surely have us trying to think of better ways to take advantage of it.

 

[bbqftw]

A lot of the fast westernization methods involve locking in exploration temporarily. If you could pick an idea group with more snowballing effectiveness, that could help no-Westernization strategies.

One is also assuming that Wien will be the only major city that would trigger this westernization... Lisboa or London, Amsterdam, or Roma might be easier to take.

 

[Chamboozer]

It's a decision for Eastern and Ottoman Tech nations to Westernize for free if they conquer certain Western cities such as Wien (there's also a tech requirement, and you have to hold the province(s) for a while).

It's mainly meant to incentivize Ottomans and Russia to go west.

Well, Westernization is already so strange that I can't really comment on it from a historical perspective. But sounds like a fun gameplay incentive.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ally Ottoman, take Vienna, + styria core, release styria as vassal, core vienna, profit?

If you can actually take Vienna as a nation like Kazan or Ayuthaya, then by all means it's as reasonable as the Ottomans doing it. Such an empire would have vast territories and access to commerce and tech from a significant chunk of the world, so why not? And if these nations pull that in MP while not western, the fact that they can go western is the least of your worries.