Western Europe Map Mod

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Ruled since 1066 by count Vled von Schalkmaas?
:edit: I might even try my hand at it, your permission fiftypence?
Anyone got any ideas where I might free up 2-3 provinces?

Merging lakes to one "lake" province, merging rivers into one "river" province, maybe getting rid of those pesky provinces at the very north and south of the map (the ones that hardly fit on) are all good places to start. Though and this point, 50pence it might be a good idea to just start from scratch using your new provs and re designing the oceans to maximize land provs.

 

[Hellvink]

Sure, go ahead. One way to add a fair few provinces would be to combine all the remaining rivers into one. I suppose you could also merge the two "Gulf of Bothnia" provinces into one.

I found designing and drawing the map fun, and doing the Province IDs was okay. The most tedious bits were drawing the borders and setting the coordinates in the province.csv, though I was doing them en masse (e.g. all of France at once), so it will be less problematic for a relatively small area like the Low Countries.

As of yet, I'm most likely adding 4 provinces, being Upper-Guelders, Upper-Sticht, Limburg and Namur. Most likely using the Rhine Weser Oder and an as of yet undecided 4th river. I now know what you meant by saying 'which would have required doing a considerable section of Germany as well' God the Rhine is BIG!

For anyone interested; Work in progress, I'm about halfway with province IDs:

I feel bad for butchering Germany like that Might add in Jülich in the north corner of Andernach in the end, not really decided about that yet.

 

[Gulluoglu]

Merging lakes to one "lake" province, merging rivers into one "river" province, maybe getting rid of those pesky provinces at the very north and south of the map (the ones that hardly fit on) are all good places to start.

I don't know if you'd be able to get rid of the lakes like this since I believe most of them are crossable by ship; it might make things very screwy or create unintentional shortcuts to distant provinces or something else unforseen by combining the lakes. Combining rivers is probably fine since they have no effect that I know about other than being cosmetic.

I agree about the provinces that barely fit on the map, though. The two in Iceland for sure, and that one in far northern part of Finland that I always forget about unless I somehow inherit it or get a claim on it. :rofl:

 

[Vaximillian]

I don't know if you'd be able to get rid of the lakes like this since I believe most of them are crossable by ship;

All of them are actually.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I don't know if you'd be able to get rid of the lakes like this since I believe most of them are crossable by ship; it might make things very screwy or create unintentional shortcuts to distant provinces or something else unforseen by combining the lakes. Combining rivers is probably fine since they have no effect that I know about other than being cosmetic.

I agree about the provinces that barely fit on the map, though. The two in Iceland for sure, and that one in far northern part of Finland that I always forget about unless I somehow inherit it or get a claim on it. :rofl:

All of them are actually.

I forgot about that... But yeah, merge some of the more (of the lack of a better term) obscure ones. Iceland can be one, there is a few up in the wastes of Northern Russia I can think of. Careful play in Persia and the Turkmenistan region can reduce numbers... Nubia as well... Depends on your connection to them.

 

[Vaximillian]

I forgot about that... But yeah, merge some of the more (of the lack of a better term) obscure ones. Iceland can be one, there is a few up in the wastes of Northern Russia I can think of. Careful play in Persia and the Turkmenistan region can reduce numbers... Nubia as well... Depends on your connection to them.

I think the whole Iceland could be scrapped, not really important during Medieval...

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I think the whole Iceland could be scrapped, not really important during Medieval...

I agree, and removing them could free up a bunch of sea provs as well, but just in case any Icelanders were here I didn't want to provoke any viking rage.

It is debatable, but Zeeland should be full in 1066, the storm doesn't break it up until 1134. That is why it was full in the original release.

 

[Hellvink]

Hmm, that's really strange. I used this map for the shoreline mostly. It shows the Holy Roman Empire in 1000 with a broken up Zeeland. I shall investigate!
:edit: Further research seems to prove you right, seeing as this however only seems to have lasted until 1134 I may still keep it like this.

 

[Drachenfire]

I did have a look at the course of the Severn, but had difficulty making it work in a way that didn't completely decimate the province of Worcester...

Well, Worcester is on the right bank of the Severn anyway and can be excluded. Look at the map again.

Looking at your current map and comparing with the Counties of England and also charting the course of the Severn, this is what I would do:

Enlarge Hereford somewhat, making its borders conform with the Severn river, reproducing the characterisitic bluge. The eastern border of Hereford would follow the course of the Severn and recreate that bulge which is necessary. Give the western sliver of Gloucester (that is, the very small portion west of the Severn) to Hereford (or to Gwent for that matter). Shrewsbury/Shopshire is a tad too large anyway, so I would give the southern part of that to Hereford as well. The northern part of Hereford should reach just below the middle part of Powys on your map.

So Hereford's northern border, eastern border, and souther border would comprise this "bluge" following the course of the Severn river. With this, Hereford would represent England west of the Severn river, and should be comparable to the size of Powys on your map.

I would also give a tad more of enlarged Shrewsbury/Shopshire to Stafford and Worcester too

 

[Hellvink]

It seems the former Rivers aren't accepting my Coats of arms, anyone got any idea what might be going wrong? Everything else is done bar de COAs, when I put in the COA for Uppersticht for example, c971, I get a fatal exception on load-up.
Any help would be appreciated.

######## EXCEPTION: 0xC0000005 at address: 0x006043C5: ACCESS VIOLATION write attempt to address 0x056BD6B0
04/01/10 15:43:01

 

[Vaximillian]

It seems the former Rivers aren't accepting my Coats of arms, anyone got any idea what might be going wrong? Everything else is done bar de COAs, when I put in the COA for Uppersticht for example, c971, I get a fatal exception on load-up.
Any help would be appreciated.

Did you change it in province.csv from river to land?

 

[Hellvink]

Yup, I can give you the map if you like? Come closer inspection, it seems the titles aren't showing up on the starting screen either. They DO show up ingame though.

I gave a courtier the title of antwerp to show what I meant. It works this way, when I add a COA and start the game it crashes

 

[Fiftypence]

Well, Worcester is on the right bank of the Severn anyway and can be excluded. Look at the map again.

Looking at your current map and comparing with the Counties of England and also charting the course of the Severn, this is what I would do:

Enlarge Hereford somewhat, making its borders conform with the Severn river, reproducing the characterisitic bluge. The eastern border of Hereford would follow the course of the Severn and recreate that bulge which is necessary. Give the western sliver of Gloucester (that is, the very small portion west of the Severn) to Hereford (or to Gwent for that matter). Shrewsbury/Shopshire is a tad too large anyway, so I would give the southern part of that to Hereford as well. The northern part of Hereford should reach just below the middle part of Powys on your map.

So Hereford's northern border, eastern border, and souther border would comprise this "bluge" following the course of the Severn river. With this, Hereford would represent England west of the Severn river, and should be comparable to the size of Powys on your map.

I would also give a tad more of enlarged Shrewsbury/Shopshire to Stafford and Worcester too

I should point out that is a county map with the revised ceremonial borders drawn in the 1970s, rather than the historical county set up which can be seen here. As you can see, the Severn doesn't really form any sort of natural borders as far as counties are concerned (except maybe between Herefordshire and Worcestershire), and cuts right through Gloucestershire and Shropshire. I've already made the border follow the Severn to some extent, as can be seen below:

Really Gloucester should border Gwent and Hereford should have no coastline, as it did in the previous version of my map before I made the changes. But making it cut right into Shrewsbury would wreck my set up and would, frankly, be anachronistic. Hereford is already about the same size as Powys (and really should be considerably smaller), so I'm not sure what you mean by that...

 

[Hellvink]

Still looks good, although I feel the river's a bit of an iffy. Frankly, I don't see the point. You're the modder, you should make the choice.
In other news I found out rivers ARE 100% compatible to make land provinces, the COA issue has been resolved. In the end I think it was a resolution-issue.

 

[Fiftypence]

Still looks good, although I feel the river's a bit of an iffy. Frankly, I don't see the point. You're the modder, you should make the choice.
In other news I found out rivers ARE 100% compatible to make land provinces, the COA issue has been resolved. In the end I think it was a resolution-issue.

That's the currently released version of the map. I haven't made any further changes to it since then. The point was to show that the Severn boundary is, to some extent, already there.

 

[Hellvink]

That's the currently released version of the map. I haven't made any further changes to it since then. The point was to show that the Severn boundary is, to some extent, already there.

My bad, in other news I finished the lowlands. Unfortunately with a different font for the provinces.
Here's my part, just copy-paste it as normal over fiftypence's work.

http://www.mediafire.com/?agcuojntzz2


Changes:
Added provinces: Namur, Antwerp, Limburg and Upper Sticht, I've used the Rhine, Oder, Weser and Elbe for these provinces
Changed: Jülich into Upper Gelre, historical dynasty and COA of Jülich still in place though
New Ducal titles: Limburg, Friesland and Liège. I've used the ABYD, ALHA and KARA tags from the eastern part of the map for this.
I've also slightly lowered income for all provinces in the lowlands and added semi-historical COAs for the new provinces/titles.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

As of yet, I'm most likely adding 4 provinces, being Upper-Guelders, Upper-Sticht, Limburg and Namur. Most likely using the Rhine Weser Oder and an as of yet undecided 4th river. I now know what you meant by saying 'which would have required doing a considerable section of Germany as well' God the Rhine is BIG!

For anyone interested; Work in progress, I'm about halfway with province IDs:

I feel bad for butchering Germany like that Might add in Jülich in the north corner of Andernach in the end, not really decided about that yet.

I don't like this set-up for the Northern Low Countries very much, it looks more like a map for the political situation at the start of EUIII then that of the 11th century.

Sticht should be bigger ('t Gooi and that Holland part south of Sticht) should belong to Sticht, Holland didn't conquer those area's then very late in the CK-era.

I think Guelders should just be named Gelre (all Dutch provinces have Dutch names, why make an exception here).

Almost all christian provinces on the map represent some independent political entity (either a lordship, country, bishopric and so on) neither Upper-Sticht or Upper-Guelders fall under that. Upper-Guelders was Gelre/Geldern. At some point the rulers of Gelre/Geldern also become the rulers of a number of small counties/pagus (Veluwe, Betuwe) in what on your map is called Guelders. The area then became known as Gelre

My suggestion would be to remove Upper-Guelders and keep Jülich there, which was a historical county (with its own ruler) in that area.

Now you probably thought that I was joking about including the county of Zutphen, but I wasn't

The county of Zutphen existed from 1046 to about 1590 (the last count of Zutphen was king Phillipe II von Habsburg of Spain). Untill the mid 12th century the county had its own ruler and after that it was in a personal union with the count of Gelre (Gelre became a duchy in the 14th century).

In the mid 11th century Zutphen was for a while even the residence of Heinrich III (the Holy Roman Emperor). In 1066 the count of Zutphen was Otto II of Zutphen, his uncle (the previous count) Koenraad/Conrad had also been the duke of Bavaria, but was disposed after a quarrel with the emperor. Koenraad/Conrad was related to the Ottonian emperors (the dynastie that ruled the HRE before the Salians/von Franken).

Otto II was closely related to another powerfull German family (the Ezzonen, von Bonngau in the game), who were the heriditiary Counts Palantine of the Rhine. Otto II married Judith von Supplinburg, the sister of Lothar von Supplinburg, who was Holy Roman Emperor from 1125 to 1137. His eldest son, Diederik/Dietrich became the bishop of Münster.

In other word he was a man with powerfull connections in Northwestern Europe. And since the county of Zutphen was his main title, it should be obvious that it was also an important county.

 

[Hellvink]

Yes, I read your part on the County of Zutphen a little while ago and researched it a little myself. I agree that it might look better with zutphen separate and would also do the region more justice.

Your assumption that it looks more like the EU3 map is 100% correct, I used this map mainly for insight, mainly for lack of a better one. As you can see its of 1477, by no means accurate. If you could suggest a map around 1066 showing the status of power in the northern netherlands? I myself quite disliked that part aswell, nevermind the idiotically long borders that came with them.

On sticht, agreed
On Guelders, agreed, I have no idea why I did that
On Upper-Guelders, agreed partially, I might add Julich in the future as I said in the upper northwestern part of Andernach, where it was historically located. The same goes for Cleves
One last thing Im very doubtful about is the shape of Breda. I feel its much too big, like Oversticht and Friesland, and that it seems very un-historical.

Furthermore, I noticed I went and put Upper-Guelders into the Duchy of Limburg. I will fix this in the future.
One more thing I noticed is that a lot of counties have no COAs assigned to them, a shame, Ill try to make a list this weekend and see what I can do about it.

All in all a work in progress to be updated, I would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Thanks !


BTW I hope you don't see my suggestions as critique on your work !

 

[Hellvink]

Ofcourse not, you found my weakness fair and square and I have no good excuse
Now to find that map...