Western Europe 1337-1469 - The Rose, the Lily, and the Oak

[mjohnson85]

In the old war of the roses mod there was the ability to choese between houses in the early 1450's and there would be a civil war with the war between york and lancaster?

The choice of house is not there, nor will it be in the same way. I am still adding historical opinion modifiers so that characters will support the correct side. Right now you still see claimant factions for the Lancastrian leaders but they are not getting enough steam. Hopefully I will have that fixed for the next version. Basically the goal is to have a continued organic dynastic war situation.

I was able to play the mod today! Plenty shenanigans!

As the Earl of Mar>Duke of Douglas, I sided with the king, my brother, against a "claimant" faction for my claim on Scotland. Midway through, another faction fired demanding exactly the same thing (wai?). This faction consisted of the parties who had stayed neutral in the first war. A third faction started up but it couldn't get very much support. During the war, I noticed that when a rebel lord died, the king inherited his lands, which seemed a bit weird. When the first war ended, I got the usual, daft vanilla treatment (thrown in dungeon, but released next day because 100 opinion, lost claim). This makes even less sense now with the loyalist/rebel system. There were opinion modifiers as well - "Loser in Civil War" and "Failed to Claim My Titles", -25 each. After that there was a lowered taxes event for having lost the Civil War. The second war finished, but I wasn't imprisoned. Gifted with a -750 prestige hit though.

In an earlier war with England for Berwick, the claimant died in battle (so many deaths!) and the war ended inconclusively. I know this is how CK2 works, but in a full-on border war, I don't think either side would stop fighting for something as trivial as that. Could it be modified so that the war continue if their's an heir with a claim or even just any other claimant in the realm? Also, perhaps there could be a dedicated border CB, e.g. "Consolidate March."

Unrelated, I gave the Pope Turriff and the Garioch so he'd like me enough to annul my marriage with my aunt. About a year later, James declares on his holiness to get the lands back. Seeing Scots sieging down Italy was quite fun (I'm pretty sure the armies were devastated by naval attrition on the way over). Then there was another claimant war...

I've noticed quite a lot of anachronistic holdings and weird provinces on the map. I do think Scotland needs to be redrawn in the future, but I've a few more smaller suggestions atm.
-Assynt>Strathnaver, Carbisdale>Assynt, Kildonon>Kildonan, Esslemont>Braigh Mar/Braemar, Corrichie>Midmar, Dunnottar>Kincardine, Middleton>Mearns, Huntly>Strathbogie, Mortlach>Strathdon, Dufftown>Mortlach (old name for Dufftown), Cullen>Banff, Turiff>Turriff, Inverallochy>Formartine, Craig>Tarbat, Kilamtrin>Kilmartin, Ardnamurchon>Ardnamurchan
-In Scotland, mayors should be provosts
-Relocalise instances of "County" to "Earldom"
-John Macdonald, Earl of Ross, should hold a Kingdom-level title "Lord of the Isles". He was very powerful until he wasn't.
-"Scottish" is localised as "Scotlandian". Maybe don't change this...

I will hopefully have the double claimant war issue fixed in the next version. I also encountered that virtually every time the faction was warring. Must be missing a character flag somewhere. I may end up temporarily removing the ck2 factions while I sort out the missing pieces because I think there are some other issues with the integration as well.

Scotland was extremely tough to draw. The shires did not correspond to the earldoms but the sheriffs did correspond to the shires. It was like 2 completely systems coexisting at the same time. Then of course there was the highland vs lowland situation. Very tough area.

I definitely agree about your sentiment with naval attrition - needs to be lowered a bit. Already done on the current dev version.

I will try to address the Scottish localization in the culture update 2 updates from now. The "Scotlandian" localization is part of the filler tool. That is something I planned to address once I was done running it.

Thanks for the suggested province name changes.

 

[ngppgn]

Is it intended that more than a year pases between you enact the plot_decision from revoke county plot and nothing happens? Currently I cannot even change plot because I have already taken the decision, but I receive no result, either positive or negative

Edit: some additional bug reports:
the decision do "adopt feudalism" as an irish tribal is bugged somehow. The tooltip for the decision shows that you must "have a stone hillfort in - -". Even if I have such building in my capital, the decision is unclickable.

Also, I'm experiencing some weird army losses when sieging other tribals. Like, my army dropping from 1400 to 400 for no reason during a siege (no attrition and no notification of a siege event is simultaneous). It doesn't happen when I siege non-tribal holdings, I think, though.

 

[mjohnson85]

I haven't done much with tribals, in fact a lot of the tribal stuff is just missing. Once I update the tribal conversion buildings it will be better. I am curious of the sudden drop in troops.

Hopefully plot issues should be resolved in this upcoming update.

 

[ngppgn]

Well the issue where sieging troops just banish, without a related siege event is there event in feudal vs feudal warfare. Is quite frustrating, TBH. Have you noticed something like that?

 

[mjohnson85]

I haven't. It could be that an event is firing but showing only for one party on the assault.

*EDIT* Is it still only happening with tribal?

 

[ngppgn]

No, it happens also with feudals against feudals (like the feudal independent lord incrusted in english ireland, against england itself. I'll check the message setting, but if got notifications for "bandits taiding my camp" "disease breaking" and "defender does a succesfull sally" and it is neither.

 

[Ithvan]

This happens in vanilla too.

 

[fanoI]

Yesterday I've played the new alpha and continued my game as Duke of Milan (Great Lombardia), I've created the Kingdom of Sardinia to not be a simple King Consort of the Queen of Naples and finally we had a male son, "luckily" my first son (the son of the Duchess of Modena the one that I need to murder ) and heir the Count of Piedmont died in battle and so now my new heir will inherit Sardinia and Naples and suddenly something "wrong" happens the Queen of Naples gives him the title of Duke of Calabria doing this I cannot invite him to my court to educate him decently and bethroned with not a retarded old woman...
This to be honest is a vanilla problem that having landed wives is always present but usually a 0 years old is not landed and so it could be moved to my court using the console.
The only solution I've found was to give a title to him before she does and so he became Duke of Mantua and after some time his mother give him the title of Duke of Calabria that became part of Sardinia obviously!

Why in this case I could not take the Kingdom of Naples using the de jure uxoris by the way? It because her rank is too high?

 

[mjohnson85]

Okay so what is happening there is that the mother is granting the historical heir apparent title to your son which is done by decision. I will need to add a check or the heir apparent titles on their deaths so that those titles don't pass to other kingdoms.

And yes right now I have restrictive versions of jure uxoris for Queens. Still tweaking that system.

Sounds like you have an interesting game though!

 

[ngppgn]

This happens in vanilla too.

I've never seen sieging arimes insta-reduced to 10% without attrition or siege event, as it is happening to me here. Do you mean it's a vanilla bug or WAD, and if the later, can it be tweaked?

I'll try to see if I can get a save where I can reliably replicate it.

 

[Ithvan]

I think it's a vanilla bug, because I've had it happen to small armies in vanilla too. The hit was sometimes so big that I no longer had enough men to siege the holding.

 

[fanoI]

Okay so what is happening there is that the mother is granting the historical heir apparent title to your son which is done by decision. I will need to add a check or the heir apparent titles on their deaths so that those titles don't pass to other kingdoms.

Yes technically the game is not doing the wrong thing, it is OK that the heir of Naples gets the title of Duke of Calabria but a 0 years old was not really the Duke! This is a vanilla issue: does not make sense that he doesn't want to be educated by his father (foreign court? Why?) or that should not accept betrothal offers by his father ("wants a better alliance?" Do you really know what a alliance his my 0 years old son?).
I don't know how historically happened when a son of two different kingdom was born? Who decided of his education the father (the King) or the mother (the Queen)? Who decided who he should have married the father (the King) or the mother (the Queen)?
If we find how this historically happened, could it be moddable in CKII?

Another thing the heir does not have the classical title of "Prince" maybe it is linked with the fact he is landed? I don't remember if this is present in vanilla too...

And yes right now I have restrictive versions of jure uxoris for Queens. Still tweaking that system.

It is seems right that I cannot usurp her so easily as she seems a strong queen...

Sounds like you have an interesting game though!

Sure! My problem is that now the King of France has started to get an interest in Italy and I cannot defeat his 40K stack... I need routines and / or mercenaries now!

 

[mjohnson85]

Yes technically the game is not doing the wrong thing, it is OK that the heir of Naples gets the title of Duke of Calabria but a 0 years old was not really the Duke! This is a vanilla issue: does not make sense that he doesn't want to be educated by his father (foreign court? Why?) or that should not accept betrothal offers by his father ("wants a better alliance?" Do you really know what a alliance his my 0 years old son?).
I don't know how historically happened when a son of two different kingdom was born? Who decided of his education the father (the King) or the mother (the Queen)? Who decided who he should have married the father (the King) or the mother (the Queen)?
If we find how this historically happened, could it be moddable in CKII?

Another thing the heir does not have the classical title of "Prince" maybe it is linked with the fact he is landed? I don't remember if this is present in vanilla too...



It is seems right that I cannot usurp her so easily as she seems a strong queen...



Sure! My problem is that now the King of France has started to get an interest in Italy and I cannot defeat his 40K stack... I need routines and / or mercenaries now!

Mercenaries and retinues will be in shortly.

I am trying to figure out a way to veto marriages as the dynastic head (I think I have a way of doing this) to try and mitigate stupid marriages of dynasty members. I will have to do some research as to how the 2 kingdom thing went about. My guess is the father would assume control if he was equal rank or higher. I might be able to mod this aspect better.

The vanilla prince title had to be renamed to highborn because all the Duke's children ended up being called "Prince" which made no sense in the mod. But in the next version I will have a crown prince/princess minor title that will be represented in the name. Dauphin of France, Prince of Wales, etc, and if a unique one does not exist it will be Crown Prince etc

 

[Woody Man]

Vetoing marriages would be fantastic.

Playing the latest version - great to be back! Do you think you'll return the 'Crown lands of England' dejure setup? I thought that was a brilliant way to simulate the bastard feudalism in England. Also, from my own taste, could you get rid of the de jure CBs? I just witnessed Edward IV take St Paul's from the Pope..

 

[mjohnson85]

Unlikely to go back to the crownlands set up because the way it is now makes the peerage granting incredibly simplistic to what it would otherwise be.

However, I am redoing CBs and factions. Decided to just start from scratch on a new faction system.

 

[Woody Man]

Ahh that's a pity, I did love that mechanic.

Also, I'm not sure whether anyone else has mentioned this, but you may want to lower the deaths per battle ratio, life expectancy is pretty short!

 

[mjohnson85]

It must be the combat event frequency because I didn't actually alter or add battle events themselves.

 

[Woody Man]

It must be the combat event frequency because I didn't actually alter or add battle events themselves.

I think so, I'm also seeing alot of incapacitated which suggests an awful lot of people are being hit on the head.

 

[mjohnson85]

Truthfully it is probably pretty close to being historically accurate. I will tone it down slightly and see how it goes.

 

[mjohnson85]

Update on claimant wars for KINGDOMS: The faction war will now persist generations and claimants. This means if the Duke of Somerset declares war for the throne on Edward IV then dies during the war his son will remain faction leader. If the son dies and someone like Henry VI is the heir he will take over as leader and fight for the crown. Basically it turns the normal claimant faction (for kingdom tier) into a dynastic faction war. Has been very successful in the first test run. Once the Lancasters won the throne back the remaining Yorks and their supporters tried to take it back.