Werewolf Lite CCCXLIII: Calciopoli

[Cliges]

vote wagonlitz

Let's see if it works this time.

 

[Daffius]

It's because u tag is sometimes outside the colour tag.

test
test2

True, still strange. I did the bolding and underlining first. Then I painted the whole thing, meaning it would be a single paint tag. Strange thing is why it breaks the paint tag into segments... oh, well, it stays as is and I don't want to derail the game with possibly the most boring conversation evah. Thanks for the info.

 

[Team Wombat]

Just pointing out that everybody has 0/3 record.

But not everyone has voted all 3 times for the villager who got killed. tonka has.

 

[Audren]

But not everyone has voted all 3 times for the villager who got killed. tonka has.

As have you.

Anyways, Thoughts on Wolves.

Tonkatoy: Tonka's jumped around a lot the past few days from candidate to candidate, most of them now confirmed goodies. He's managed to land on a villager every single day, though quite a few of us have managed that particular feat. I can't say I'm a fan of his vote jumpiness on Day 1 and Day 2, though I admit I'm not sure who he'd be protecting if that's the case. Day 3 he's the fourth voter on Jackson, very shortly after the third, helping push Jackson into a comfortable lead. Tonka's been a good candidate this whole time, frankly, but let's see if there's other cases to be had.

Wagonlitz: He's been run up on both Day 1 and Day 2, but pressure faded away both times. However, he wasn't run up that much (only a couple votes on each day), so I find the lack of a strong push on him a bit more suspicious than his being run-up in the first place. Day 3 he's the fifth voter on Jackson, pushing him far ahead of other contenders. The case on him is decent, but he is of course an unlikely packmate with Tonka, given how frequently they've been voting each other.

CaesarSkobie: Had a pretty large Day 1 run-up on him that's never resurfaced since. This strikes me as pretty suspicious. Unfortunately, there's hardly anything else on him, since he didn't vote Day 3 and was in a minor push for Wagon. I wouldn't mind some more pressure put on him, but it's hard to say.

Wombat: Throwaway on Ironhide on Day 1. Though the vote was made early in the day, it could be a wolf who's content with the candidates being run up, since it was never changed. He's the third voter on Nautilu, cementing his status as a candidate. He's also the second person on Jackson. Not quite as suspicious as the third vote (I wonder who did that one), but it's still an early push for Jackson that was before his really incriminating stuff. Wombat's a decent candidate, as he himself admits.

Aedan: Aedan's been the first voter on every person he's voted for so far. In addition to being the sort of trivia crap that I love, it's also a good sign from him. He very zealously pushed for Jackson on Day 2 and Day 3, which hurts him a bit. However, there's not much else there to suggest that he could be bad. There are better options.

Madchemist: Here's one that surprised me, but he's my favourite candidate out of the bunch. He jumps around a bit on Day 1 before settling in on the third voter on Arkasas, previously having been on the Caesar train. In fact, he was one of the more vocal voters on Caesar, even leaving a throwaway on him on Day 2 after villager Nautilu has a nice handy bandwagon on him. Now, however, this suspicion on Caesar has been dropped. Curious. Furthermore, his lone votes on Caesar (Day 2) and Wombat (Day 3) strike me as somebody who's content with those being run up, and wants to distance himself from that. As Aedan pointed out, he advocates for Jackson's lynch without voting him, perhaps to fool people like me who rely too much solely on vote counts. Madchemist is being wily, I feel, and I think he's the best candidate here.

Sleepyhead: Haven't heard too much from Sleepyhead this game. Could be a sign of wolfiness, but there's a lot of people who haven't said much yet (myself included). Day 1 he ends up the sole voter on Madchemist, previously being on Tonka. Day 2 he leads the charge against Tonka, which could've easily gotten Tonka killed. Day 3 he votes very late for Jackson, but this was after Jackson's questionable statements. Unlike many of us, he hasn't voted too many villagers yet, save for his late vote on Jackson. A possibility, but a slim one, I think.

Cliges: Not too much on Cliges, either. He's the first voter on Arkasas Day 1, which isn't so bad in comparison to his later voters. Day 2 and Day 3 he's on Wagonlitz. A tad tunnel-vision-y for my liking, and his Day 3 vote could be explained in much the same way as Madchemist's. Also hasn't said too much this game, but I don't think he talks much in any game.

K-59: Day 1 he votes Tonka after being part of the Caesar push. Doesn't say much on the subject either way. Day 2 he's the third voter on Jackson, long before any of his particularly wolfish comments. This rubs me the wrong way, especially since he's a very late vote on Jackson on Day 3, previously voting for Tonka again. He was quite critical of Tonka's voting shenanigans, which may prove a point in his favour.

Audren: Places the third vote on Esemesas on Day 1 and keeps it the whole day. If he's a wolf, he probably doesn't have packmates being run up. Day 2 he votes Nautilu fairly early. Slightly suspicious, but not as much as Wombat and Tonka's votes. Day 3 he's the third person Jackson. However, this vote is preceded by two votes on Jackson back to back and is followed by two more voters in quick succession. His third vote helps solidify Jackson's standing as a candidate, but the later voters push him into bandwagon oblivion. Still not a bad candidate, though.

Ultimately, I think the best cases are on Madchemist, Wombat, Tonka, Audren, and CaesarSkobie. I wouldn't mind any of them dying (besides Audren, of course), but I feel that the best case is on Madchemist.

VOTE MADCHEMIST

 

[Wagonlitz]

People wanting to lynch someone without success only matters if there was a real point against them to begin with. If there never has been a case against them, then repeatedly running them up is far more likely to cause harm and damage information than catch a wolf. To my knowledge there has not been a good case against wagonlitz, if there has been one, that would be far more important in a case against him than his continued survival.

This.

If anything, I'd say this makes him look worse, since he specifically avoided Jacksonian beforehand. Sure there's the danger of joining a bandwagon, but if you're going to agree with it anyways, the only difference is for fooling people who just look at votecounts. Further, on day 2 he seemed to have tunnel vision on Caesarczech and ignored the other candidates, yet has since totally dropped the matter. This is wolf MC, he's avoiding making an effort to find wolves and keeping his votes under the radar.

True. I too think it looks a lot like wolf MC:

CC has been banned. Does anyone know if it is permanent or temporary?

Nobody knows yet.

Why, if I was a wolf who therefore would have known Jacksonian was good, would I call unnecessary attention to myself with a post approving of his lynch just minutes prior to deadline, when nobody was in need of further convincing? I know well enough when to shut up as a wolf, and that would have been the ideal time for it.

Because it was that or the last bandwagon vote.

I was never even online in the first place to vote him before the bandwagon became stratospheric.

Holds up; when you went offline Jackson had 0 votes and when you came back he had 7. Also meaning that your hands were tied when you came back.

Honestly, do you think I'm stupid? Throwaway votes typically stand out like a sore thumb in a vote count and are usually accounted more suspicious, not less. If I was a wolf, joining the bandwagon would allow me to blend in just as easily. That vote was more or less symbolic and a statement of my secondary suspicions on an otherwise wasted day. The bandwagon was much too strong for anything I did to matter, even if I had thought Jacksonian was a villager, which I did not.

Not stupid, but as aedan mentions it is actually a quite good strategy when there is no seer; plus as you yourself pointed out your hands were tied when you came back so it was either a throwaway or being a severe bandwagoner---neither is a good thing.

You were caught in a catch 22 with your, either you make a throw-away and get suspicion for not voting wolfish Jacksonian, or you vote for him and join the bandwagon. Jacksonian was acting quite wolfish, which means the people who would know best that he wasn't were the wolves themselves. Thus you would know that defending him, either explicitly or by just putting down a throw-away, would make you seem like a wolf who knew a villager was being bandwagoned. Had you just voted him and said you agreed with the case, then the possibility would remain that you'd be run up later for bandwagoning him even further. Thus you take a third option by putting down a throw-away, but also approving of the case on Jacksonian. This way if someone just looks at the vote counts, you didn't bandwagon a villager, and if someone asks why you didn't vote him, you can just point to the bandwagon and say it wouldn't have changed anything. And if you get pressed further, you then have your current defense, the classic "I wouldn't have done that if I was a wolf". By not remaining silent you can claim this, but more than just that, you then appear more active near deadline for engaging wagonlitz, something that keeps lazy voters away. The potential risk to such a move is minimal, while the gains are larger than the alternative strategy would give you.

This.

Vote MC



Remember that today is TIE day.

 

[Daffius]

Official Votecount ~5 hrs to deadline


Madchemist: 3
Aedan (#308)
Audren (#324)
Wagon (#325)

Wagon: 2
Sleepyhead (#305)
Cliges (#321)

Tonka: 1
Deathbywombat (#304)

Deathbywombat: 1
Tonka (#311)

Audren: 1
Madchemist (#316)

Cliges: 1
Gen. Skobie (#320)



Not voted: @k-59

 

[tonkatoy5]

I think it's obvious whats going on here, Euro has somehow placed a werewolf curse on me.

Well, I owe Wagonlitz an apology. Tonka thinks you're a wolf, therefore you are not. Forgive me.

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

But not everyone has voted all 3 times for the villager who got killed. tonka has.

Right. I was thinking more in terms of "not lynching wolf" than "lynched villager".


As for the CaesarCzech getting lots of votes on day 1... one interesting thing about that is two out of three who mention it were themselves part of first voting CaesarCzech and then moving away. So it almost makes me wonder if they are accusing themselves, setting false trails or what.

 

[madchemist]

Counter-post to mine in #316

I'm going to preface this with a general statement of your analysis here: what you're doing is exactly the same as your actions in the Resistance game: you're starting with an assumption which you will not accept the possible falsity of, and you are manipulating the facts to fit your theory rather than adjusting your theory based on the facts. You should be far better than that. Take the known facts and explain how I or any other candidate might be a wolf based on those facts, not start with a pre-determined conclusion and find everything supporting that conclusion.

You were caught in a catch 22 with your, either you make a throw-away and get suspicion for not voting wolfish Jacksonian, or you vote for him and join the bandwagon. Jacksonian was acting quite wolfish, which means the people who would know best that he wasn't were the wolves themselves. Thus you would know that defending him, either explicitly or by just putting down a throw-away, would make you seem like a wolf who knew a villager was being bandwagoned. Had you just voted him and said you agreed with the case, then the possibility would remain that you'd be run up later for bandwagoning him even further. Thus you take a third option by putting down a throw-away, but also approving of the case on Jacksonian. This way if someone just looks at the vote counts, you didn't bandwagon a villager, and if someone asks why you didn't vote him, you can just point to the bandwagon and say it wouldn't have changed anything. And if you get pressed further, you then have your current defense, the classic "I wouldn't have done that if I was a wolf".

A villager coming in at the end of such a bandwagon has the exact same catch-22. Do I further express agreement with a case I'm inclined to agree with and add my vote to an enormous landslide of votes, or do I find it a poor idea to pile on further? Coming online that late in the day after events were far out of any control I had basically made any action I took capable of taking on a wolfish interpretation. There's nothing I can do about that, but I'll allow that so far, what you say is a not implausible interpretation.

By not remaining silent you can claim this, but more than just that, you then appear more active near deadline for engaging wagonlitz, something that keeps lazy voters away. The potential risk to such a move is minimal, while the gains are larger than the alternative strategy would give you.

I assume this is your actual answer to what I posted. I'd say fine, but most people will never even notice something that was left unsaid. It is infinitely safer to leave it unsaid than to say something that comes out suspicious when it turns out to be wrong.

Mostly covered above, but to specifically respond to this, I'll say that while that is a general truth, it isn't when it comes to bandwagons. When most players are on a single candidate who is a goodie, the baddies will avoid if possible, since the default assumption many players have is "Votes goodies= baddie" (See: DeathbyWombat's percentage list). Certainly it wouldn't fool everyone, but you don't need to fool everyone to avoid a lynch, particularly without a seer. Further more, there are few actions which are truly so bad that a good wolf would never do them, in large part because they can then claim that if they were a wolf, they'd never do that. A game without a seer would be the perfect time for that. I know I've acted in ways I wouldn't normally as a wolf in games where the seer died early, so I certainly consider you capable of such tactics.

Fine, it's not a point I particularly care to belabor, especially since I don't know how I'd have actually handled it as a wolf. I'll concede the point that I might make a throwaway here as a wolf.

I would have expected at least passing comment on him as a candidate day 3, but you didn't and instead voted Deathbywombat, without reason why he had surpassed Caesarczech as a suspect. Conceivably Caesarczech could still have been your main suspect, but then I'm not sure why you didn't vote him instead. Neither Deathbywombat nor Caesaczech had votes at the time you voted.

That's not how I do these things. I never have only one suspect, for the simple reason that there are multiple wolves in the game (shocking, I know). I had already made clear that I found CaesarCzech suspicious for two days running. Voting him a third day in a row would not have done anything meaningful.

Ok so 3 wolves, 3 friends and no seer. Today is the penultimate day. I did a readthrough of the thread. Here's some initial thoughts about some players. The game has been on the quiet side so there's not that much to go on.

Tonka, as has been said, has done & said some questionable things. He would seem very wolfish. However, based on Euro being friend I thought Tonka was more likely friend than wolf so I don't think I'll vote Tonka now. If he ain't a friend, though, he looks prime candidate for wolf. So yeah, I guess he's decent candidate if you feel his oddish moves are less likely friend and more likely wolf thingys.


deathbywombat, aedan777 and madchemist all activated today and made analytical posts. Few things about those. First off,



Just pointing out that everybody has 0/3 record. Other than that, like I said, if Tonka ain't friend, he'd be prime wolf candidate. I got the impression he's friend, so...

I don't know Wombat's play style enough to judge him either way. Was somewhat keen and quick to jump on both Nautilu and Jacksonian.

Aedan could well be in his quietish wolf play who activates more as game progresses. Just as well he's playing like his usual villagerish self, insults people when he gets some votes (Nautilu) and otherwise makes more effort as game progresses. He could go either way, I suppose. But without dead wolves that goes for everybody.

Sleepyhead; like Aedan, he seems to be sticking to his usual playstyle. Piled on Jacksonian on day three but then again I suppose Jacksonian did look like a wolf judging from his comments. Day one was on Tonka, then madchemist. If Tonka is friend, perhaps Sleepy is, too. If wolf, might implicate Sleepyhead.

k-59 could again go either way. His votes have had reasonable logic behind them. I'm somewhat undecided about his switch from Tonka to Jacksonian on day three. 5-3 situation and he jumped to Jacksonian thus sealing the deal. Then again, he did that after rather asinine post by Jacksonian so I guess that might explain it. Could have connection with Tonka one way or another.

Audren put on day three Jacksonian up over Tonka (3-2) which might indicate some sort of connection between them. Again, could be friend/wolf with Tonka (does it look like tons of people could be affiliated with Tonka?). Like it's been said he's somewhat quiet.

Who I find interesting is Wagonlitz. Day one he jumps around a bit (which isn't uncharacteristic for him) and ends up putting Arkasas the villager to the chopping block Also, for what it's worth he was worried when people talked about his supposed wolf tells. He really sealed the deal on Jackson when Tonka was the other possible candidate. And at that point I was going to vote for him, especially after this comment:



But as I was reading I realised Cliges is totally under the radar. Here are all of his posts during the game:
Especially his throwaway on day three (with Jacksonian bandwagon) makes me think he's quiet wolf. He stays away from the bandwagon but doesn't make much noises letting people hang villager while putting his vote quietly elsewhere.

So,


vote Cliges






It's because u tag is sometimes outside the colour tag.

test
test2

Good to see you post something here, though it's less than I expected. Cliges is always under the radar, regardless of role, so I don't know how much of a problem that is. I can't say I've been a fan of his Wagonlitz votes thus far, though.

vote wagonlitz

Let's see if it works this time.

And again. Why, I have to ask?

As have you.

Anyways, Thoughts on Wolves.

Tonkatoy: Tonka's jumped around a lot the past few days from candidate to candidate, most of them now confirmed goodies. He's managed to land on a villager every single day, though quite a few of us have managed that particular feat. I can't say I'm a fan of his vote jumpiness on Day 1 and Day 2, though I admit I'm not sure who he'd be protecting if that's the case. Day 3 he's the fourth voter on Jackson, very shortly after the third, helping push Jackson into a comfortable lead. Tonka's been a good candidate this whole time, frankly, but let's see if there's other cases to be had.

Wagonlitz: He's been run up on both Day 1 and Day 2, but pressure faded away both times. However, he wasn't run up that much (only a couple votes on each day), so I find the lack of a strong push on him a bit more suspicious than his being run-up in the first place. Day 3 he's the fifth voter on Jackson, pushing him far ahead of other contenders. The case on him is decent, but he is of course an unlikely packmate with Tonka, given how frequently they've been voting each other.

CaesarSkobie: Had a pretty large Day 1 run-up on him that's never resurfaced since. This strikes me as pretty suspicious. Unfortunately, there's hardly anything else on him, since he didn't vote Day 3 and was in a minor push for Wagon. I wouldn't mind some more pressure put on him, but it's hard to say.

Wombat: Throwaway on Ironhide on Day 1. Though the vote was made early in the day, it could be a wolf who's content with the candidates being run up, since it was never changed. He's the third voter on Nautilu, cementing his status as a candidate. He's also the second person on Jackson. Not quite as suspicious as the third vote (I wonder who did that one), but it's still an early push for Jackson that was before his really incriminating stuff. Wombat's a decent candidate, as he himself admits.

Aedan: Aedan's been the first voter on every person he's voted for so far. In addition to being the sort of trivia crap that I love, it's also a good sign from him. He very zealously pushed for Jackson on Day 2 and Day 3, which hurts him a bit. However, there's not much else there to suggest that he could be bad. There are better options.

Madchemist: Here's one that surprised me, but he's my favourite candidate out of the bunch. He jumps around a bit on Day 1 before settling in on the third voter on Arkasas, previously having been on the Caesar train. In fact, he was one of the more vocal voters on Caesar, even leaving a throwaway on him on Day 2 after villager Nautilu has a nice handy bandwagon on him. Now, however, this suspicion on Caesar has been dropped. Curious. Furthermore, his lone votes on Caesar (Day 2) and Wombat (Day 3) strike me as somebody who's content with those being run up, and wants to distance himself from that. As Aedan pointed out, he advocates for Jackson's lynch without voting him, perhaps to fool people like me who rely too much solely on vote counts. Madchemist is being wily, I feel, and I think he's the best candidate here.

Sleepyhead: Haven't heard too much from Sleepyhead this game. Could be a sign of wolfiness, but there's a lot of people who haven't said much yet (myself included). Day 1 he ends up the sole voter on Madchemist, previously being on Tonka. Day 2 he leads the charge against Tonka, which could've easily gotten Tonka killed. Day 3 he votes very late for Jackson, but this was after Jackson's questionable statements. Unlike many of us, he hasn't voted too many villagers yet, save for his late vote on Jackson. A possibility, but a slim one, I think.

Cliges: Not too much on Cliges, either. He's the first voter on Arkasas Day 1, which isn't so bad in comparison to his later voters. Day 2 and Day 3 he's on Wagonlitz. A tad tunnel-vision-y for my liking, and his Day 3 vote could be explained in much the same way as Madchemist's. Also hasn't said too much this game, but I don't think he talks much in any game.

K-59: Day 1 he votes Tonka after being part of the Caesar push. Doesn't say much on the subject either way. Day 2 he's the third voter on Jackson, long before any of his particularly wolfish comments. This rubs me the wrong way, especially since he's a very late vote on Jackson on Day 3, previously voting for Tonka again. He was quite critical of Tonka's voting shenanigans, which may prove a point in his favour.

Audren: Places the third vote on Esemesas on Day 1 and keeps it the whole day. If he's a wolf, he probably doesn't have packmates being run up. Day 2 he votes Nautilu fairly early. Slightly suspicious, but not as much as Wombat and Tonka's votes. Day 3 he's the third person Jackson. However, this vote is preceded by two votes on Jackson back to back and is followed by two more voters in quick succession. His third vote helps solidify Jackson's standing as a candidate, but the later voters push him into bandwagon oblivion. Still not a bad candidate, though.

Ultimately, I think the best cases are on Madchemist, Wombat, Tonka, Audren, and CaesarSkobie. I wouldn't mind any of them dying (besides Audren, of course), but I feel that the best case is on Madchemist.

VOTE MADCHEMIST

Nice to see I've at least woken you up a bit, but I don't see too much here that hasn't already been said better by others. Your analysis on me, in particular, is little more than a rehash of aedan's.


There's also one thing that really caught my eye here:

Madchemist:

Here's one that surprised me, but he's my favourite candidate out of the bunch.

Which reminds me of this:

By all rights, he should be lower on this list.

That's the second time today a case against me has been led in with some sort of "well, he probably shouldn't have a good case on him, but I think he has a good case on him". Both of those make me quite uneasy; they each sound as though you two know something about me that, by all rights, you should not know: that the case on me is actually a wrong one, and are protecting yourselves for when/if my death occurs and I am revealed as a villager.

This.

True. I too think it looks a lot like wolf MC:

Nobody knows yet.

Because it was that or the last bandwagon vote.


Holds up; when you went offline Jackson had 0 votes and when you came back he had 7. Also meaning that your hands were tied when you came back.

Not stupid, but as aedan mentions it is actually a quite good strategy when there is no seer; plus as you yourself pointed out your hands were tied when you came back so it was either a throwaway or being a severe bandwagoner---neither is a good thing.

This.

Vote MC



Remember that today is TIE day.

There's pretty much nothing worth saying that is meaningful enough to reply to here, other than to acknowledge that yes, today is TIE day, and that my inclusion in the TIE is helpful to nobody but the wolves.


I want Audren and Wombat dead today. I believe they are both aware of my being a villager and have inadvertently revealed it by their statements.

 

[Wagonlitz]

I want Audren and Wombat dead today. I believe they are both aware of my being a villager and have inadvertently revealed it by their statements.

That actually is a very good point; especially the wombat one is suspicious in my opinion. Though he doesn't vote you for some reason. I guess a TIE with those two wouldn't be too bad; I just have this nagging feeling you are playing tricks with us. I really hope you aren't a wolf.

Unvote MC
Vote wombat

 

[Audren]

That's the second time today a case against me has been led in with some sort of "well, he probably shouldn't have a good case on him, but I think he has a good case on him". Both of those make me quite uneasy; they each sound as though you two know something about me that, by all rights, you should not know: that the case on me is actually a wrong one, and are protecting yourselves for when/if my death occurs and I am revealed as a villager.

I want Audren and Wombat dead today. I believe they are both aware of my being a villager and have inadvertently revealed it by their statements.

Hmm. That's actually a pretty interesting linguistic quirk. I cannot speak for Wombat, of course, but I can explain my meaning. I hadn't given too much thought to you as being one of the wolves; I was more focused on Tonka and Wombat. It wasn't until I went back and looked over everyone that I began to see the case on you. As you yourself pointed out, I haven't been as active as I ought to be, and I had missed your suspicious actions earlier.

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

There are no outed wolves and I haven't been paying attention to this game before I subbed in so I went by what I read in the thread today. Anyways, interesting how madchemist has so much lowered expectations for some and gives them a pass for anything. Unless there's some hidden motive, of course.

Hmm. Care to rehash the cases on Wombat and Audren? Apparently you think either/both has shown inside info about your role (which comes from them not seeing you as suspicious?) but is there something else? I'm not saying slips don't happen but it seems somewhat convenient that saying people have shown they have inside info makes Wagonlitz go from "madchemist is wolf, lynch him" to "hey, madchemist is right".

 

[Wagonlitz]

There are no outed wolves and I haven't been paying attention to this game before I subbed in so I went by what I read in the thread today. Anyways, interesting how madchemist has so much lowered expectations for some and gives them a pass for anything. Unless there's some hidden motive, of course.

Hmm. Care to rehash the cases on Wombat and Audren? Apparently you think either/both has shown inside info about your role (which comes from them not seeing you as suspicious?) but is there something else? I'm not saying slips don't happen but it seems somewhat convenient that saying people have shown they have inside info makes Wagonlitz go from "madchemist is wolf, lynch him" to "hey, madchemist is right".

I am not saying that MC is right. I am saying that he has a good point on audren and wombat. Actually I am very in doubt if MC is pulling us around, since he has been acting strange. The problem being that wolves aren't the only ones knowing each other. Plus MC is valuable as a goodie, so it would be a shame to cull him if he isn't a wolf. But I am actually really in doubt here.

 

[Sleepyhead]

I am not saying that MC is right. I am saying that he has a good point on audren and wombat. Actually I am very in doubt if MC is pulling us around, since he has been acting strange. The problem being that wolves aren't the only ones knowing each other. Plus MC is valuable as a goodie, so it would be a shame to cull him if he isn't a wolf. But I am actually really in doubt here.

Ah good it's not just me then. Just reading his latest posts gives me a headache.

 

[madchemist]

Hmm. That's actually a pretty interesting linguistic quirk. I cannot speak for Wombat, of course, but I can explain my meaning. I hadn't given too much thought to you as being one of the wolves; I was more focused on Tonka and Wombat. It wasn't until I went back and looked over everyone that I began to see the case on you. As you yourself pointed out, I haven't been as active as I ought to be, and I had missed your suspicious actions earlier.

That's... a semi-plausible reading, I suppose.

There are no outed wolves and I haven't been paying attention to this game before I subbed in so I went by what I read in the thread today. Anyways, interesting how madchemist has so much lowered expectations for some and gives them a pass for anything. Unless there's some hidden motive, of course.

That's not giving Cliges a pass so much as saying it's consistent with his usual play. He's still on my list of potential candidates.

Hmm. Care to rehash the cases on Wombat and Audren? Apparently you think either/both has shown inside info about your role (which comes from them not seeing you as suspicious?) but is there something else? I'm not saying slips don't happen but it seems somewhat convenient that saying people have shown they have inside info makes Wagonlitz go from "madchemist is wolf, lynch him" to "hey, madchemist is right".

Right.

The immediate cause of my case has been that their analysis claiming that I'm a wolf or a solid target to run up has been hedging, preceded by statements which appear to me to be grounded in the knowledge that I am not a wolf. The quoted statements in my post above (329) are my evidence as far as that goes. Besides that, their behavior and/or voting patterns raise some red flags; both have been more or less silent prior to today, and have placed fairly important votes on known villagers.

I am not saying that MC is right. I am saying that he has a good point on audren and wombat. Actually I am very in doubt if MC is pulling us around, since he has been acting strange. The problem being that wolves aren't the only ones knowing each other. Plus MC is valuable as a goodie, so it would be a shame to cull him if he isn't a wolf. But I am actually really in doubt here.

But the wolves are the only ones who would know that I am a villager, which is what I'm getting at here. The remaining friends knowing that they are both goodies has no bearing on my accusation here.

Ah good it's not just me then. Just reading his latest posts gives me a headache.

I have that effect sometimes.

 

[Wagonlitz]

But the wolves are the only ones who would know that I am a villager, which is what I'm getting at here. The remaining friends knowing that they are both goodies has no bearing on my accusation here.

I am aware of that and you might have noticed I am voting your brother not you; still doesn't change that you are making me seriously suspicious---and aedan has a point. You are more like wolf MC than goodie MC. On the other hand your case on audren and wombat makes sense too and you are a great loss as a villager. As mentioned I am really in doubt here.

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

I am not saying that MC is right. I am saying that he has a good point on audren and wombat. Actually I am very in doubt if MC is pulling us around, since he has been acting strange. The problem being that wolves aren't the only ones knowing each other. Plus MC is valuable as a goodie, so it would be a shame to cull him if he isn't a wolf. But I am actually really in doubt here.

So wait, you think madchemist is acting strangely so you vote him and then recant and go with his suggestion? Am I only one thinking you're jumping around a bit today?

That's not giving Cliges a pass so much as saying it's consistent with his usual play. He's still on my list of potential candidates.

Well, yeah, he seems to be consistently lacking any reason for his votes. It just seemed he was getting free pass in this game. I suppose anti-zombieism isn't as popular as it used to be.

The immediate cause of my case has been that their analysis claiming that I'm a wolf or a solid target to run up has been hedging, preceded by statements which appear to me to be grounded in the knowledge that I am not a wolf. The quoted statements in my post above (329) are my evidence as far as that goes. Besides that, their behavior and/or voting patterns raise some red flags; both have been more or less silent prior to today, and have placed fairly important votes on known villagers.

Hmm. I can understand how you start by questioning people voting you (assuming you're goodie) but I'm not sure if I see as much there. Could be I'm overlooking/not meticulous enough but I didn't get the same certainty of inside info from those posts.

I am aware of that and you might have noticed I am voting your brother not you; still doesn't change that you are making me seriously suspicious---and aedan has a point. You are more like wolf MC than goodie MC. On the other hand your case on audren and wombat makes sense too and you are a great loss as a villager. As mentioned I am really in doubt here.

Again I can't help but feel you're hedging your position here. On the other hand you're voting in tandem with madchemist, on the other you say he's more likely wolf than goodie.

 

[Wagonlitz]

So wait, you think madchemist is acting strangely so you vote him and then recant and go with his suggestion? Am I only one thinking you're jumping around a bit today?

Because I am not sure on the case on MC; I think it is decent, but can also see several holes in it. SImilarly the cases MC brought forth seems fine too. The problem is that it is the penultimate day and that MC is valuable as a goodie.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Also we need that TIE.

 

[Team Wombat]

That actually is a very good point; especially the wombat one is suspicious in my opinion. Though he doesn't vote you for some reason. I guess a TIE with those two wouldn't be too bad; I just have this nagging feeling you are playing tricks with us. I really hope you aren't a wolf.

I haven't voted mc yet because the case for tonka seemed incredibly obvious to me, and still does. He's already 0/3 on voting with some ridiculous gaffes, and will be 0/4 if today's votes hold. However, mc's excessive bout of digital diarrhea has convinced me that he's a better target this round - the cases from Auden and Audren against MC made perfect sense, and I do know perfectly well that his proposed solution would at least get one innocent (me) killed.
My statement did not imply knowledge of your status, mc; what it did do was say that judging strictly by your vote-counts, you'd be unlikely to be considered a wolf, but your actions reflect the pattern of a sleeper agent. And your defensive attitude over two relatively clear statements from myself and Audren indicates unease over your status.
That said, I am going to out myself... as the second friend. (No point in having a fun role if you can't use it or help the village, and I'm likely going down anyway if the bandwagon rolls on.) As you may have guessed from my voting patterns, madchemist and tonka are NOT the other friend. As the third friend has played the game sensibly, I would like to keep him alive, so I'm not giving further information on that front.
It is possible that mc is correct about Audren - he was fairly high on my list. But he's wrong about me, and I'm not betting on him being right about Audren - his analysis has been sound and fury, signifying nothing up to this point.

Unvote tonka
Vote madchemist