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al-Aziz

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Well, actually, I hear people mention the loss of life quite frequently. Different backgrounds, I guess.
There was this phrase that really stuck with me- rivers flowing red and black with blood and ink. So both, probably.

Most people here think of Genghis Khan and his crew as generic scary but "badass" guys, like, say, King Arthur or a real-life Batman more than Hitler. This is, I think, more because he was not a direct enemy but rather this guy who defeated our culture's historical enemies, and we don't remember them the same way. I haven't heard either lamented very much from the general populace- or from the museums even. The Genghis Khan exhibit focused mostly on how tolerant he was and how he had good battle strategies, etc., not on the immense destruction of culture and life.

Additionally they were not mainly looking to kill people for religion or race, as the Nazis were. The deaths from the Holocaust are so well remembered partially because they were the main point of Hitler's genocide (as with ISIS), and partly because it was closer geographically and chronologically, and partly because, ultimately, Hitler didn't succeed. I'm not sure if the memory of the crimes will fade with time but I certainly hope we will keep the memories alive and "never forget" indeed.

As the effects fade, however, we might forget- but the human effect was much larger than the cultural one is perceived to be and the memories of the lost culture are more likely to fade if anything does; there is not that same level of never forget applied to culture (perhaps because, while Hitler succeeded in killing many, he failed at destroying the Jewish culture and so it is not a thing to be remembered so much as honored or, pertaining to destroyed objects and synagogues and communities, mourned and kept alive with the new).

So back on topic with ISIS, we (not me specifically, the Americans) see them as an extension of AQ and terrorism and were directly "attacked" (I can't find a sufficient word for the beheadings so sorry for the air quotes), so it is possible that their crimes against life will be seen as crimes against us (and our values of free religion, anti-genocide, classic natural rights etc) more than their destruction of Shia shrines, Assyrian structures, Iraqi history etc.

I think the extent to which they will be reviled and for what will be larger and different respectively (this respectively pertains to the terms directly preceding it not after it) among the Shias and Iraqis and etc. than among Americans, ofc, but I'm not in a position to judge or predict what non-Americans will remember.

Whew, that was interesting! Thank you for making me reconsider and analyze things. (Just by the way, you're one of my favorite Paradoxians Wagon, as are you, Panzer.)
 

PanzerCorps

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There was this phrase that really stuck with me- rivers flowing red and black with blood and ink. So both, probably.

Most people here think of Genghis Khan and his crew as generic scary but "badass" guys, like, say, King Arthur or a real-life Batman more than Hitler. This is, I think, more because he was not a direct enemy but rather this guy who defeated our culture's historical enemies, and we don't remember them the same way. I haven't heard either lamented very much from the general populace- or from the museums even. The Genghis Khan exhibit focused mostly on how tolerant he was and how he had good battle strategies, etc., not on the immense destruction of culture and life.

Additionally they were not mainly looking to kill people for religion or race, as the Nazis were. The deaths from the Holocaust are so well remembered partially because they were the main point of Hitler's genocide (as with ISIS), and partly because it was closer geographically and chronologically, and partly because, ultimately, Hitler didn't succeed. I'm not sure if the memory of the crimes will fade with time but I certainly hope we will keep the memories alive and "never forget" indeed.

As the effects fade, however, we might forget- but the human effect was much larger than the cultural one is perceived to be and the memories of the lost culture are more likely to fade if anything does; there is not that same level of never forget applied to culture (perhaps because, while Hitler succeeded in killing many, he failed at destroying the Jewish culture and so it is not a thing to be remembered so much as honored or, pertaining to destroyed objects and synagogues and communities, mourned and kept alive with the new).

So back on topic with ISIS, we (not me specifically, the Americans) see them as an extension of AQ and terrorism and were directly "attacked" (I can't find a sufficient word for the beheadings so sorry for the air quotes), so it is possible that their crimes against life will be seen as crimes against us (and our values of free religion, anti-genocide, classic natural rights etc) more than their destruction of Shia shrines, Assyrian structures, Iraqi history etc.

I think the extent to which they will be reviled and for what will be larger and different respectively (this respectively pertains to the terms directly preceding it not after it) among the Shias and Iraqis and etc. than among Americans, ofc, but I'm not in a position to judge or predict what non-Americans will remember.

Whew, that was interesting! Thank you for making me reconsider and analyze things. (Just by the way, you're one of my favorite Paradoxians Wagon, as are you, Panzer.)

+Agree

+Thanks, you too
 

GreatUberGeek

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This may very well be the best thread in the forum due to the sheer delth of discussion. And sheer silliness.
 

Cliges

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There was this phrase that really stuck with me- rivers flowing red and black with blood and ink. So both, probably.

Most people here think of Genghis Khan and his crew as generic scary but "badass" guys, like, say, King Arthur or a real-life Batman more than Hitler.
)

Why the quotes? Are you implying that Genghis Khan wasn't really a badass?
 

al-Aziz

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Cliges

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Great is not the same as badass. Nor are they mutually exclusive. Bears repeating.
 

Lemeard

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Great is not the same as badass. Nor are they mutually exclusive. Bears repeating.
bears-repeating.jpg
 

happycats517

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Meh, he rode a pony. LA-AME!

/valley girl


Y'know, you don't have to do the valley girl thing outside of the big, right? I think Aziz has been lying to us all the time and is actually from SoCal and her most used words are totally, omg, and whatever.
 

al-Aziz

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Y'know, you don't have to do the valley girl thing outside of the big, right? I think Aziz has been lying to us all the time and is actually from SoCal and her most used words are totally, omg, and whatever.
And on the same page I wrote that thoughtful piece about Hitler, Ganghis Khan, and ISIS, too. :(

*a single manly tear rolls down cheek

;)
 

Cliges

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Meh, he rode a pony. LA-AME!

/valley girl

That just goes to show his more mellow side. Sort of like when he made amends with his son, thus avoiding a potential succession crisis. Find out about it here:

 

k-59

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And on the same page I wrote that thoughtful piece about Hitler, Ganghis Khan, and ISIS, too. :(

*a single manly tear rolls down cheek

;)
TL;DR
 

Gen. Skobelev

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I used to like :) before that weirdo used it way too many times.

The smile is too much, like somebody said in that thread, like a sociopath. I can imagine someone walking around with that face constantly at least getting lots of strange stares, not to mention people everywhere being creeped out.

Isn't that exactly the reason why al-Aziz likes it?
tongue_zpscntqujcv.gif
 

marty99

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Oh for God's sake I open the
"Werewolf General Planning Thread"
and this is the first post I see
The reason the Mongol occupation was so brutal probably had a lot to do with the fact that their nomadic way of life was very different from the settled agriculturalists they conquered. If a people has to live under the rule of those who live so very differently it always gets ugly. Just look at what happened to the natives of the North American plains when Western people settled there. Or at the Siberian steppes after the Russian conquest. There isn't much left of those once vibrant societies and the destruction doesn't even have to be intentional to be complete, though it sure did help.
:p

Temujin was an absolute legend though. Top lad.
 

happycats517

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Oh for God's sake I open the
"Werewolf General Planning Thread"
and this is the first post I see

:p

Temujin was an absolute legend though. Top lad.


C'mon Marty, haven't you learned yet that this has essentially become "OT Forums Ocho: The WW Edition"?
 

Wagonlitz

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Well, actually, I hear people mention the loss of life quite frequently. Different backgrounds, I guess.
Yeah I guess it comes from different backgrounds. Heck we don't even talk about the loses in 1864 here.

Most people here think of Genghis Khan and his crew as generic scary but "badass" guys, like, say, King Arthur or a real-life Batman more than Hitler. This is, I think, more because he was not a direct enemy but rather this guy who defeated our culture's historical enemies, and we don't remember them the same way. I haven't heard either lamented very much from the general populace- or from the museums even. The Genghis Khan exhibit focused mostly on how tolerant he was and how he had good battle strategies, etc., not on the immense destruction of culture and life.
I don't think it is because he defeated our enemies---remember the Mongols got to Germany and the Adriatic Sea. It is more that it is so long ago that nobody is affected by it or even know anybody who knew somebody affected. Plus most people don't know much about the Mongols. It simply is so removed from you that you start focusing on other things and all the genicides the Mongols did fade---for instance I doubt many know about those skull mountains they made.
Additionally they were not mainly looking to kill people for religion or race, as the Nazis were. The deaths from the Holocaust are so well remembered partially because they were the main point of Hitler's genocide (as with ISIS), and partly because it was closer geographically and chronologically, and partly because, ultimately, Hitler didn't succeed. I'm not sure if the memory of the crimes will fade with time but I certainly hope we will keep the memories alive and "never forget" indeed.

As the effects fade, however, we might forget- but the human effect was much larger than the cultural one is perceived to be and the memories of the lost culture are more likely to fade if anything does; there is not that same level of never forget applied to culture (perhaps because, while Hitler succeeded in killing many, he failed at destroying the Jewish culture and so it is not a thing to be remembered so much as honored or, pertaining to destroyed objects and synagogues and communities, mourned and kept alive with the new).
It will fade eventually. Sure the more horrible the deed the longer it takes, but eventually it will fade. WWII actually already is fading with the generation who were adults back then dying. Just look at how much WWI already has faded or how a considerable amount of the British youth thinks Sherlock Holmes was historical and Churchill fictional---yuck.
It simply is much more relevant to the generations directly affected or growing up in the shadow of it. Later generations won't see it as important as the older generations and the severity of it will fade. On the other hand people will continue to remember great pieces of cultural heritage and those may even be accidentally made bigger than they were. Just look at the Amber Room; due to the replica having been built people will potentially continue being sad about the loss of the original for centuries---especially when looking at the replica and perhaps thinking about what is missing. (Don't know how accurate it is, but people will question the accuracy.)
 

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Doctor Cisor -- Lycanthroporthodontic Specialist
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How many people actually care about a library that burned down in Egypt?