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Not even Marty's best game, either. Thanks for hosting, though I'm disappointed that I didn't last longer.
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Not even Marty's best game, either. Thanks for hosting, though I'm disappointed that I didn't last longer.
After looking back and thinking it over, I think it's safe to say that I did end up defeating myself with my shifting machinations. Had I not created the three way tie and instead just lynched Health alone, then things would've gone as I explained to Sleepyhead. After the hunt, 8 players left, we lynch one, sleepyhead and I vote to shoot someone, and then I'm hunted and turned to reach parity with me, Sleepyhead, and cliges out of 6 remaining players. No outed wolves to get al-Aziz to screw things up, and no real chance for the wolves to win easily without turning me.
So why did I make the tie? Really not sure in hindsight. Perhaps I let the opportunity for a three way tie and thinking of myself on team baddie already cloud my judgment.
So why did I make the tie? Really not sure in hindsight. Perhaps I let the opportunity for a three way tie and thinking of myself on team baddie already cloud my judgment.
LK's PJL Chronicle - Part I
Since the workings of the JL/PJL were very complicated, with several lines of communication between several different players, I think that each member should post his own perspective of things; this is mine.
Here is the PM convo between MC and myself from Day 3:
From this point onward I was a full-fledged JL/PJL member. More PMs will come later.
Since the workings of the JL/PJL were very complicated, with several lines of communication between several different players, I think that each member should post his own perspective of things; this is mine.
Here is the PM convo between MC and myself from Day 3:
I super-scanned Wagonlitz that night, and immediately contacted him.
Jerman also contacted me around this time:
I told Wagon about this:
I then passed the fictitious scan result on to MC:
From this point onward I was a full-fledged JL/PJL member. More PMs will come later.
A hunter wolf? Are you kidding me Marty?
wow, what a brutal backstab of the village.
wow, what a brutal backstab of the village.
It was nothing personal when I shot you.
It's just that I could tell you were a villager.
Maybe not.
Hunter used to be a role, not a trait. In the old days, when someone got hunter they would take a potshot on the first night, instantly clearing themselves. They would then be contacted by the scanners, the protectors would protect them, and an insta-JL would be formed.
It was then decided to make it into a trait, so they would not be instantly cleared. However, even if it is a trait, if one only ever gives it to certain roles you can use that to clear people, or at least get certain information about that role i.e. 'they can't be a wolf'. That is not something that should happen. And if people assume someone is not a wolf because they have hunter in this game, that is their own fault because they are simply being lazy, they are ignoring all past precedent, and are trying to game the system.
That is why I can have hunter baddies and brutal goodies, etc.
Aww. I thought I looked back and it said he wasn't. Maybe that was just from the list of dead players, though.
Huh, it really was. Cool.
For the record, aedan's actions really pissed me off.
I feel like justice was served.
I feel like justice was served.
Hey, I had to do a lot of work upping Cliges credentials to AVN. Luckily LK had tasked al-Aziz of shooting Cody the same night and with LK dead the PJL was off him, for the moment.
Yes that's what I told people
Yes, this is why I never believed you. Seeing as you actually were a baddie your PM was terrible, as you did not address your claim to AVN. Asking me to confirm I was a baddie, provide proof, etc. while you at the same time had no clue on how to attach nor included marty in the conversation were major ticks. Only when marty said a cultist would attach at night I confirmed, as I presumed I was dead anyway.
As I told you, you going along with the outing and arguing against me made no sense for you, if you were evil. You had every reason to vote and question aedan, yet you didn't.
The PJL was great at killing off baddies, we got Yakman, Gen. Marshall and De Chatillôn and had Cliges as a suspect. The only one we did not believe was Hax. I hunted him so that he wouldn't use his spy ability on the wrong person.
Thanks, it wasn't easy. Npstr and Cliges really made it very difficult, the latter for withholding all relevant information such as when we hunt the day the entire council wants to use a witness ability, and for not voting the people I told him to vote, and the former for wanting you to read our conversation where he basically confirms that I am cursed. Following which I told him I 'we' thought I was no longer a target.
I seem to remember you mentioning that you saw me hunting Hax in the thread, am I imagining it or did you edit it out?
Yes, I was thinking of explaining why, but I assumed that that wouldn't really make much difference since I could just as easily claim I was only pretending as a goodie.
Yes. But for a while I honestly didn't know who was the baddie; I thought aedan was the actual baddie at first. But when I realized it was probably you I also thought it wouldn't make much difference for me to switch, and that I'd rather get confirmation from you so I didn't go to a massive effort to save a goodie and get a baddie (aedan) lynched; but also so I could make a plan with you and from your information before I did anything else; and I also didn't think I could plausibly argue against aedan's case. It would have looked very suspicious against me and done very little good since the other goodies weren't particularly gullible and the evidence was obviously against you.
Here are my PMs, all from today. I also had some with marty, but he can post them if he wants.
I didn't know I was allowed to do that... you mean that I can just ask marty to attach me to someone from a pack without actually asking them first?
Well that's easily exploitable.
al-Aziz said:I thought I knew.
I've done that in my PM with marty:
al-Aziz said:
Please Attach me to Sleepyhead's Pack
If that is not possible please attach me to Cliges's pack
If that is not possible please attach me to aedan's pack
I only partially believe Sleepy, but it's enough to convince me to try. And so at this point I start expressing concern in-thread that there is so little resistance to aedan as a candidate.Also, why didn't you hunt aedan?
I realize I won't be able to convince any villagers:
Because I think that I'll be dead soon because I'm planning a self-outing, and also that Sleepy doesn't have a packmate.
**and then there's no response until after deadline.
But meanwhile I get a PM from Cliges, the packmate I didn't think existed:
Maybe a bit hasty, but the pieces just fit so well.
My calculations for the day's strategy are rapidly changing since now I can gun for a win.
Then I say, writing before I read Cliges' PM:
Yes.
As you can tell, I was really excited to be able to drop the masquerade as a wolf and just sort of blatantly out myself in-thread. It's the first time I've done that sort of thing ever, and it felt very brazen.
Additionally I actually did try to make sure I couldn't lose by doing this; as near as I could figure it would ensure victory because the villagers would switch off Sleepyhead because they couldn't win anyway, like how wolves sometimes surrender instead of hunting more villagers.
Also, being an unattached cultist wouldn't generally give you any evidence to work with. It's not like I had packmates; just the role PM which I couldn't quote, and the brutal order information that I had already told you about and which could be easily forged.
That it's difficult if you don't get all information you need from a teammate I understand. I will go into more detail in my story which I will post tomorrow. But I have one question, why didn't you tell me the story behind the hunt of JCan when I asked for it. And that was before you were turned. Did you know at that moment you were cursed ?
In earlier games, I'd been a wolf and had attached cultists by them contacting me and asking the GM to attach them in a PM including me, them, and the GM. I thought this was the way it was usually done and so didn't bother checking.
I also didn't know if I was allowed to include the GM since that seems like it might be cheating, just like how you can't submit hunt orders in the sorc's PM, or scan orders in a thread with JL member — you could then easily tell if something was real if it included the GM or not.
I also didn't know if I was allowed to include the GM since that seems like it might be cheating, just like how you can't submit hunt orders in the sorc's PM, or scan orders in a thread with JL member — you could then easily tell if something was real if it included the GM or not.
I do wonder though Sleepy, why you went with the story that aedan was a starting baddie, intsead of him being turned, as everyone had always expected he would be?
Probably since aedan's spy reports didn't change partway through and aedan wasn't hunting, meaning he couldn't have been turned because then he'd be hunting with the pack.
Were those spy reports public available at that time, though? I must have missed them being posted in the thread.