Werewolf CCL: Transform and Roll Out!

[Dedonus]

You missed some parts.
PL in this game can claim both thief and hunter. So what you should have done was to use thief and hunter on the first two days. That's an extra kill two nights in a row. Have Agatha rob somebody on the first night too. Then you have three extra kills at the start of day 2.
And you have used your killing traits and hence are ready for if you get run up and need to use cloak and later brutal. And you won't have to choose between killing somebody and using sorc protect.

I actually was thinking about claiming the thief trait after Envy had used it, as it would have been really easy to do so that day (since people were already talking aboutit). But I was concerned that that would be a little obvious. Not that we really needed to do that, anyways.

A goodie never should use robber/thief in blind. It's by far most likely to hit another goodie.

That partially was my point. My point was that Envy wasn't aware of the kill-part of the thief trait. You are right that robbing somebody blind is often bad, but my emphasis was meant on the GA death, not the theft part.

 

[MAWofdoom]

@MAWofdoom

Dedonus, s'il vous plaît.

@MAWofdoom switch to dedonus if you please

Already done good sirs.

 

[Wagonlitz]

That partially was my point. My point was that Envy wasn't aware of the kill-part of the thief trait. You are right that robbing somebody blind is often bad, but my emphasis was meant on the GA death, not the theft part.

My point was that even if it had been robber, then it'd been super bad in any case. As a goodie shouldn't use a role destroying trait blindly, wheher it also kills the person or not.
We've seen many times that a goodie robs somebody using robber, only to later find out that it was the seer or priest getting destroyed.
Or Dutchguy's brutal van Helsing being reduced to a vanillager by Cymsdale the goodie robbing him, only to later subbing into DG's vanillager.

 

[Dedonus]

My point was that even if it had been robber, then it'd been super bad in any case. As a goodie shouldn't use a role destroying trait blindly, wheher it also kills the person or not.
We've seen many times that a goodie robs somebody using robber, only to later find out that it was the seer or priest getting destroyed.
Or Dutchguy's brutal van Helsing being reduced to a vanillager by Cymsdale the goodie robbing him, only to later subbing into DG's vanillager.

And I totally agree with your assessment.

 

[Ironhide G1]

Final Update

After the disappearance of Dinobot, the Autobots are on High Alert. However, Dinobot resurfaces almost out of nowhere, and without warning several of his comrades overwhelm the final members of the Autobots. The Ark is sucessfully sabatoged, and the remaining Autobots over the planet Cybertron are subjected to Decepticon rule. Megatron ascends to become Emperor of All of Cybertron, using his Decepticons to shape the world as he wishes, capable of spreading Cybertronian civilization to conquer the stars.

The Seeker Pack of Decepticons Win!

nepechri the Brutal Cloaker Decepticon with a rival (brutal wolf with a cloak of invisibilty)
Dedonus the six-changer insider Decepticon with keen senses (spiritually attuned pathological liar wolf with used sorcerous powers)
Arkasas the secretive veteran Traitor (plotter alderman cultist)
Avernite the secretive mole (plotter sorceror)
alxeu the secretive mole's apprentice (plotter sorceror's apprentice)

Final Remaining Goodies:
Jacksonian Missionary the Six-Changer (Pathological Liar)
Chieron the mimic paranoid Autobot (formerly thief one eye open villgaer)
Team Wombat the insider Autobot (villager with used sorcerous powers)
MAWofdoom the Autobot intelligence officer witg keen senses (spiritually attuned priest)
sleepyhead the cloaker Wrecker (van Helsing with a cloak of invisibility)

 

[Culann]

My point was that even if it had been robber, then it'd been super bad in any case. As a goodie shouldn't use a role destroying trait blindly, wheher it also kills the person or not.
We've seen many times that a goodie robs somebody using robber, only to later find out that it was the seer or priest getting destroyed.
Or Dutchguy's brutal van Helsing being reduced to a vanillager by Cymsdale the goodie robbing him, only to later subbing into DG's vanillager.

I know your pointing out why a goodie shouldn't use a rob ability blindly but I find your examples really funny, particularly subbing the robbed VH.

 

[Team Wombat]

That's 4 unused or misused shots on the part of the goodies by my count. Wowee.

 

[Sleepyhead]

We are in a bunker and won't come out until the nuclear winter passes.

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

I didn’t even get to use my shot? Lame

 

[Ironhide G1]

Brief GM Comments:

My mistakes: too many plotters (this was just a miscount on my part), using marty's sorc rules (I adapted them from a 40 person game I really admired), and making both Dedonus PL or nepechri cloaked. Otherwise I think it actually could have worked pretty well balancewise. Also my misconception of parity. Also a big one is I should have had werewolf hunts before scans, as there were at least 3 (maybe 4) wasted scans, two of them single-use.

Watching things unfold, several comments. The baddies were powerful, but the village also got really unlucky. Like Wombat said, Envy's wild shot not only took out a guardian angel, but wasted an OEO I had to counteract the powerful baddies and also wasted sleepy's superscan. The van Helsing and the GA would have been in kahoots, and the GA would know he was OEO. OEO instead rested on an inactive player, taking it out of effect. The PL goodie did almost nothing (sorry Jackson no blame there you came on at a rough spot). DBW lost his scan. I was also suprised that both apprentices were scanned Night 0.

 

[MAWofdoom]

That's 4 unused or misused shots on the part of the goodies by my count. Wowee.

That does change things quite a bit. Having our own pl would have been very useful had it been used more.

 

[Dedonus]

The village also got unlucky that Nepechri came back online right before he almost got lynched on Day 2. Had Nepechri been lynched and he had not come online, the baddies would have lost a brutal and a cloak, as I don't think Nepechri had set a standing order for his brutal.

 

[Wagonlitz]

That's 4 unused or misused shots on the part of the goodies by my count. Wowee.

5
PL can use both thief and hunter this game.


So, the village might have had a shot with perfect luck. More perfect luck than already happened.
But it'd need to be absolutely perfect.
A wolfpack running rhis correctly would be able to reach parity by the end of day 2 assuming they aren't unlucky enough to lynch/hunt the sorc.

Starting: 5 baddies. 3 wolves, 1 culture, 1 sorc.
13 goodies

At the start of day 1: 5 baddies, 10 goodies (hunt, baddie PL thief, baddie thief)
Start of day 2: 5 baddies, 7 goodies (lynch, hunt, baddie PL hunter(

Baddies have 3 aldermen. That means that they can snipe to parity at the end of day 2. If sorc isn't in touch they might need to go for threeway.
But that wouldn't be too hard given two normal aldermen and a plotter alderman. In total then parity at the end of day 2 is perfectly possible unless the goodies get insanely lucky and have some of their hunters/their thief kill baddies eitehr night 0 or night 1. Somethig which won't realistically happen.


I.e. the village needs to lynch a baddie day 1 or have one of their nightly killers kill one one of the first two nights. Otherwise it's game over if the baddies play it correctly.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Also a big one is I should have had werewolf hunts before scans, as there were at least 3 (maybe 4) wasted scans, two of them single-use.

No. The hunt always comes (almost) last. Scans always go before the hunt and there always is the risk of losing your scan to the hunt. That's part of the game, always has been that wya, and should be kept that way.

as I don't think Nepechri had set a standing order for his brutal.

What? Is he Panzer?

 

[Ironhide G1]

I guess I should also apologize for the nuisance I've been. I did try to make it balanced, but I realize now that it wasn't. This is my second time with a big ever and the first one in 5/6 years. I apologize for making you all unhappy.

 

[MAWofdoom]

I guess I should also apologize for the nuisance I've been. I did try to make it balanced, but I realize now that it wasn't. This is my second time with a big ever and the first one in 5/6 years. I apologize for making you all unhappy.

No need to apologize whatsoever, as I found the game quite enjoyable despite losing. Things can't always be perfect, and it wasn't your intent anyway.

 

[Chieron]

That is a ridiculous number of shots and manipulating abilities for such a small game. Yes, it could've gone either way.
But in such cases, it is very likely that the wolves win due to their coordination. The village will still need to find their footing and likely make some mistakes in shooting itself.
It also only works, if the scans are lucky (and the scannees survive). Voting information is more difficult in such a situation.

BTW - villager with Plotter + Priestly scan feels outright insulting compared to the stacks the baddies had.

It's unfortunate, that the player count was so low (with also zombieism creeping in instantly). The stronger traits would not have been that bad in a full sized game.

Anyway, thanks for hosting @Ironhide G1 and @CaptainGrimlock .

 

[Witch Agatha]

I guess I should also apologize for the nuisance I've been. I did try to make it balanced, but I realize now that it wasn't. This is my second time with a big ever and the first one in 5/6 years. I apologize for making you all unhappy.

You’re not a nuisance, and at I’m not unhappy, and I didn’t even win!

it takes a lot of time to make one of these games, and there a few things bout to happen while managing it, but I thought you were very helpful, you always were prompt to answer my questions, and I had fun! Even if I got made really early on. So, thank you for hosting

 

[Team Wombat]

I guess I should also apologize for the nuisance I've been. I did try to make it balanced, but I realize now that it wasn't. This is my second time with a big ever and the first one in 5/6 years. I apologize for making you all unhappy.

Most of my irritation came before I realized that we had access to a zillion kill shots if the goodies put their heads together correctly. Cloaks and sorcerer was annoying, but mistakes happen, and I had fun at least. We appreciate you and Grimlock taking the time to run a game for us!

 

[Culann]

I guess I should also apologize for the nuisance I've been. I did try to make it balanced, but I realize now that it wasn't. This is my second time with a big ever and the first one in 5/6 years. I apologize for making you all unhappy.

Even if one did make a seemingly balance game like you did, there is a number of variables you can't predict player actions. Events could have played out much differently, say JL forming around goodies with shots, the council scanning a different player, or baddies not hitting an apprentice so early. I take away that we had a fun game, and bigs with 20 people is hard to setup for. Hosting a big intimidates me, hence doing the lite first. That's my two cents anyways.