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Cliges

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But not as intensely as videonfan.

Blame my youthful re-readings of Plato's Apology and the Passion of Youth. Normal kids read Marx or something, I guess. I'm sure you wept while getting out those ball and stick thingees for the chemical bonds and it has impacted you to this day.
 

madchemist

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Blame my youthful re-readings of Plato's Apology and the Passion of Youth. Normal kids read Marx or something, I guess.

Reading Plato at a young age can only be a good thing. Allowing a young kid to read Marx, on the other hand, could probably be argued to be a form child abuse.

I'm sure you wept while getting out those ball and stick thingees for the chemical bonds and it has impacted you to this day.

Meh, the modeling kits are fun and all, but the first thing I really remember making me think about chemistry was the mesmerizing blue color of a copper (II) sulfate solution that my dad brought home one day. It's weird how these things work.
 

Dr.Livingstone

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Blame my youthful re-readings of Plato's Apology and the Passion of Youth. Normal kids read Marx or something, I guess. I'm sure you wept while getting out those ball and stick thingees for the chemical bonds and it has impacted you to this day.
Please, all the cool kids read Nietzsche and Schopenhauer.
 

npstr

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You got it all wrong. Kids don't read at all nowadays.
 

Kaisersohaib

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Oh well.
 

Gen. Marshall

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I am a terrible candidate. It's just that for MC, "catching" me has become his white whale.

*alarm bells*

Having recently been a packmate of Cliges', this is the kind of comments which caught my eye that game. Maybe this is just his way of defending himself but it looks fishy to me.

I really want to lynch one of the players who keeps insisting that Cody was a good lynch yesterday, even in hindsight.

Let's go with the first guy who went with the "well, we'll just keep voting him until he's dead anyway" argument. Quoting this one for the second time:

There's about a dozen people I want to lynch right now who have continued to spout some inane variation of that line.

Sorry MC, but pick another one. Tornadoli and I were the only players who came up with legitimate arguments why Cody was a more likely wolf. In spite of your and DBW's counterarguments, in the end it came down to personal judgement and you cannot legitimately say that Cody voters ignored some piece of critical evidence which cleared him - because there wasn't.

That's not to say that I don't mistrust people who silently voted Cody and got away with it. Just that Tornadoli is not one of those people.
 

Audren

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madchemist

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Sorry MC, but pick another one. Tornadoli and I were the only players who came up with legitimate arguments why Cody was a more likely wolf. In spite of your and DBW's counterarguments, in the end it came down to personal judgement and you cannot legitimately say that Cody voters ignored some piece of critical evidence which cleared him - because there wasn't.

That's not to say that I don't mistrust people who silently voted Cody and got away with it. Just that Tornadoli is not one of those people.

If by "legitimate arguments" you mean a set of rather improbable hypotheticals, then I'll grant you that he came up with them. It came down to who was willing to use good judgment and who was either unwilling or unable. Pushing a villager lynch essentially because "he needs to be punished and oh yeah, there's one or two plausible scenarios where he's a wolf" is not a goodie thing to do.
 

Gorganslayer

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vote spockyt

not sure if i will wake up before deadline and I dont want my vote to go to waste
 

Tornadoli

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If by "legitimate arguments" you mean a set of rather improbable hypotheticals, then I'll grant you that he came up with them. It came down to who was willing to use good judgment and who was either unwilling or unable. Pushing a villager lynch essentially because "he needs to be punished and oh yeah, there's one or two plausible scenarios where he's a wolf" is not a goodie thing to do.


???

I was one of the only ones who actually presented reasons for why I thought Cody was a baddie. You completely twist my words. In fact, I said the complete opposite of what you are claiming:
I don't know whether he is a baddie. But, as I and others and have said before, it would make much more sense for a baddie hunter to get his shot off now, than for a goodie hunter. Cody being irrational in general does complicate matters a bit, but the basic premise still stands.

Punishing him for shooting a hunter is a good additional point, as deterrence. But him being a likely baddie hunter is the primary reason.

I clearly said that I'm NOT voting him just to punish him, although it was a good addition.

Your lack of good analysis makes me suspicious of you, madchemist. I don't know whether you usually make such sloppy comments.

However, something I noticed yesterday:

If y'all are trying to make a TIE, please let it be with Jackson and not Cliges. I'm not sold on the reasoning for that run up.

Furthermore, Cody must be destroyed.

VOTE CODY

Trying to subtly save Jackson while providing an alibi?
Maybe. Good analysis? Not really, just something I noticed.

Vote Audren
 

Gen. Marshall

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If by "legitimate arguments" you mean a set of rather improbable hypotheticals, then I'll grant you that he came up with them. It came down to who was willing to use good judgment and who was either unwilling or unable. Pushing a villager lynch essentially because "he needs to be punished and oh yeah, there's one or two plausible scenarios where he's a wolf" is not a goodie thing to do.

The "improbable hypothetical" is that someone wasting his hunter shot early is more likely to be a wolf. Our disagreement was whether or not a baddie Cody would have packmates to stop him from using the shot, but you're acting like there was some sort of conclusive evidence that Cody would never make that shot as a baddie. None of such evidence has ever been presented, in fact the closest anyone got was that in a previous game De Chat had to stop packmate Cody from using his shot.

Also, I might be mistaken, but I don't think Torn ever used the silly "he needs to be punished" logic.
 

Audren

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???


Trying to subtly save Jackson while providing an alibi?
Maybe. Good analysis? Not really, just something I noticed.

Vote Audren

No. You also forget to note my very public endorsement of a TIE between Cody and Jackson. I'm sorry that I have but one vote to give to my village.
 

Gen. Marshall

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Some ramblings as I attempt to find suspicious behaviour.

These are all the votes which were made just after Jackson picked up steam the first time. One would expect a packmate to counterbalance here and cast a vote for another prime candidate - but not on Cody, since there was a backlash against Cody voters at the time.

Yeah, this seems like a better idea than wasting a day of vote analysis.

Vote Kaisersohaib

View attachment 170579
Vote Al-Aziz

Cause I gotta get XP!

Vote Kaisersohaib

For the crime of being half my sign up number, rounded up.

First things first:


Now that we've gotten that out of the way...



Actually find both parts of this interesting. First, whoever set the hunt on npstr is an ass, considering 1) he seems like a competent new player and 2) he's drawn a bunch of early hunts/deaths in previous games. So I'd bet either an RNG hunt or someone who wasn't paying attention (may not have been in previous games), even if the result is optimal for the goodies.
On the Comm Cody shot, I'm leaning villager - wolves tend to play more cautiously that otherwise in the first couple turns, and a baddie cody would likely want to target someone more, um... veteran than Caesar.



Hell of a risk to take as a goodie - what if he turned out to be seer or priest or protector? Second in command is nothing to sneeze at, either. (Also, killing players early eliminates any possibility of improvement down the road.)





Interesting votes, from both of you. Wouldn't expect either of you to take the obvious route and jump so quickly on Cody, knowing his Rambo playstyle.





And the backlash. I happen to agree with both of you.



Problem is that it's a risky shot to take as a baddie on night 0 - what if you hit an unaligned baddie with your shot? I'd expect a baddie shot to go off on night 1 or 2 for maximum chance of effectiveness (usually after a one-time scan, if any exist), not night 0 - can avoid early suspicion and ensure you don't hit a bad target. That's why I'm leaning toward villager Cody taking that shot - a wolf cody would presumably have a pack advising him not to take the shot, and a unaligned Cody would have a high chance (likely somewhere around 1/3) of hitting a fellow baddie.



He'd have to be unaligned to be going completely solo as a baddie. Packs can coordinate strategies.



I could picture goodie Cody taking that shot; have a harder time picturing the other way.



Third vote on Cody. Should also keep him in mind, but his vote is less out of character than the other two previously mentioned.

Marshall and Jackson should both know better. Especially uncharacteristic vote from Marshall, whose analysis is generally strong.

Vote Gen. Marshall

Vote Gen. Marshall

Yeah, I feel that whilst CC doesn't have a decent record shooting him is still ass-like, but this play doesn't seem wolf Cody.

Considering this and that it is D1, I'll go with Aziz due to trying to in Yakman's terms, "Out flash the flasher."



VOTE AZIZ

This is the only thing I agree with in this post. The rest, not so much.



Disagree. Imagine if he had e.g. targetted Sleepyhead. No way would he not get lynched tonight. Hitting Caesar gives him the plausability of "lol I saved the village from caesar, lolololol" "excuse" which seems to be working for him for now. Similarly, if he had hunted N1 or N2, sure, it might have more effectiveness, but again, no way he would get away with it. If he for example hit the seer, people would assume he was in contact with eg. the sorc and would lynch him for it. N0 provides plausable deniability.



You say that he can't be a baddie because the risks of hitting a fellow baddie are too high, despite saying LITERALLY just a few sentences earlier that the risk of hitting e.g. the seer, priest or a protector is too high if he is a goodie. Seems like some prime double-think going on here, of which a packmate protecting his fellow baddie might be capable of.



I disagree. The whole "they went for the easy lynch" has become so common nowadays that it is becoming an "easy lynch" in itself. I don't see how Jackson or Marshall going for Cody for shooting a goodie is any more an easy lynch than De Chat or tamius going for them because they went for the "easy lynch".


I definitely think Cody has to die today. In addition to all of the above, my reasons are as follows:
1) Cody has already demonstrated in this game that he is not going to work in the village's best interest. He could be a baddie, and even as a goodie, he could be more destructive than if we lynched him (remember early outings, etc.?). If he is a goodie, he is highly unlikely to be an important goodie (they rarely have hunter traits afaik), so not much lost.
2) Deterrence. If we allow people to get away with shooting goodies on N0, then what's going to stop baddie hunters just doing the same in the future?

Vote Cody

Two votes for kaisersohaib stand out as pushing a third candidate for little reason. It would be silly for two of Jackson's packmates to vote for the same person, but who knows. Sleepyhead's bare vote on me also seems weird but I'll leave judgement on that up to others.

Semi-interesting votes as they push a Cody-Cliges TIE which would have had at least one villager in it:

Thank you. Let's make things a bit more interesting.

vote Cliges

I think Cody is possibly a villager, however I think he deserves to be killed anyway. A tie (Cliges) would be preferable.


Vote Comm Cody.

Who incidentally, is not CC.

Vote Cliges

A very interesting vote which stands out as the only vote for Cody while people are trying to push up Jackson:

If y'all are trying to make a TIE, please let it be with Jackson and not Cliges. I'm not sold on the reasoning for that run up.

Furthermore, Cody must be destroyed.

VOTE CODY

However, I'm not sure if this means Audren and Jackson are packmates. After all, at this point it was pretty clear that there was going to be a TIE anyway and Audren had two perfect oppurtunities to cast an alibi vote and complete the TIE. Unless someone can prove that Audren dislikes alibi voting, I don't think this is as meaningful as it might seem.

As a note, Jackson directly commented on Cliges' case, which he tends not to do for packmates:

This run up on cliges is pretty weird. No one is actually thinking for themselves end there's actual stuff to go off on day 1. Hazbot does this often when he's a baddie, and he's the latest culprit of piling on with no reason.

Unvote Cody
Vote Hazbot

IMO the most likely wolf from all of this is LatinKaiser, for his odd agreement with Cliges that a hunter should shoot Cody, and his counteracting of the case on Jackson.

Vote LatinKaiser
 

Sleepyhead

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Some ramblings as I attempt to find suspicious behaviour.

These are all the votes which were made just after Jackson picked up steam the first time. One would expect a packmate to counterbalance here and cast a vote for another prime candidate - but not on Cody, since there was a backlash against Cody voters at the time.


Two votes for kaisersohaib stand out as pushing a third candidate for little reason. It would be silly for two of Jackson's packmates to vote for the same person, but who knows. Sleepyhead's bare vote on me also seems weird but I'll leave judgement on that up to others.

Semi-interesting votes as they push a Cody-Cliges TIE which would have had at least one villager in it:


A very interesting vote which stands out as the only vote for Cody while people are trying to push up Jackson:



However, I'm not sure if this means Audren and Jackson are packmates. After all, at this point it was pretty clear that there was going to be a TIE anyway and Audren had two perfect oppurtunities to cast an alibi vote and complete the TIE. Unless someone can prove that Audren dislikes alibi voting, I don't think this is as meaningful as it might seem.

As a note, Jackson directly commented on Cliges' case, which he tends not to do for packmates:



IMO the most likely wolf from all of this is LatinKaiser, for his odd agreement with Cliges that a hunter should shoot Cody, and his counteracting of the case on Jackson.

Vote LatinKaiser
You had one or two votes already when I voted you, I was never back before deadline to change the vote.

You got votes for doing exactly what Jacksonian was doing, being the second Cody voter IIRC. Given how Jacky turned out you look worse.