We're all set for a China DLC

[Me_]

With the introduction of the new Viceroys system for king and duke level titles in C, it would seem that centralized states can now (well, a week from now) be represented sensibly in CK2.

It would therefore appear to me that the last hurdle on the way for the China DLC has been removed.

What do you think? Is there anything left, that we're still missing? The new tribal system will make it possible to populate the steppe more sensibly, so that's out of the way as well.

 

[ahhheygao]

That sounds very entitled. PD owes you nothing, really.

How is that remark of his entitled? Modders can only work with what PDS has made available through exported functions/variables, while PDS coders aren't limited by hardcoded limitations and can add new features.

as I said I don't recall any topic asking for China before RoI. Maybe that's just me though

That's just you. There were far more for China compared to relatively few for India prior to the announcement of RoI

 

[anomanderus]

Nah, China is about as far as you can go. Well, I suppose you could include SE-Asia, but it wasn't very important, tbh.

Yeah no

I don't see where you possibly get off arguing for China when the Chinese empires had very little interaction in military and diplomatic affairs with the lands west of the Tarim basin but then completely ignore the continuous Chinese imperialism in Southeast Asia

This is why the arguments for the China DLC fail- because the people who want it just desperately want China for some reason while claiming it's "super important" without elaborating why it's super important

How is that remark of his entitled? Modders can only work with what PDS has made available through exported functions/variables, while PDS coders aren't limited by hardcoded limitations and can add new features.


That's just you. There were far more for China compared to relatively few for India prior to the announcement of RoI

Find us some then. The only threads I remember talking about India and China were threads I started myself where I suggested Paradox make Sengoku type games for India and China separate from the main CK2 since it seemed unlikely and out of place to have either in the main game

 

[Tabris01]

Yeah no

I don't see where you possibly get off arguing for China when the Chinese empires had very little interaction in military and diplomatic affairs with the lands west of the Tarim basin but then completely ignore the continuous Chinese imperialism in Southeast Asia

This is why the arguments for the China DLC fail- because the people who want it just desperately want China for some reason while claiming it's "super important" without elaborating why it's super important

The interactions inside Eurasia between China and the Rest were mostly economic or cultural, per silk road; and their succes in China had paved the way for the Mongol invasion of the west.

 

[SeizeVictus]

I need a new PC anyway. Plz bring Crusader Mings

To all of you. Get a job lulz.

Or.. I'm not sure if its like this with RoI, but maybe the new region could be toggled on/off ?

 

[anomanderus]

The interactions inside Eurasia between China and the Rest were mostly economic or cultural, per silk road; and their succes in China had paved the way for the Mongol invasion of the west.

Economic and cultural stuff doesn't need to be represented by a whole new east asian zone

East Asia as a zone would be vastly more isolated than India is currently

 

[Jess135]

I'd say that China is very important but is best left out for now due to people's computer issues. Once you start raising the system requirements to a pre-existing game to the degree that China would require you start getting into legal issues. With CK3 on the other hand, not only could they raise the requirements as high as they want they could also use it as a major selling feature in their promotional campaign. With those limitations in mind, I would say the current dividing line is ideal because you and the least cross-border interactions of any other mark in Eurasia. The Tarim Basin forms a natural boundary in the steppes and India didn't really have much interaction with Burma.

 

[Tabris01]

Economic and cultural stuff doesn't need to be represented by a whole new east asian zone

East Asia as a zone would be vastly more isolated than India is currently

But only if you do not add the Uighurs and company. Thus you'd have them, the Mongols, the Koreans and with some luck the SE Asians, the Seldjuk may turn east instead of west and bother you - the Tang even had a small standoff with the Abbasids - , and you'd (hopefully) have a "Mandate of Heaven" mechanic, making governing a lot more difficult and revolts much more likely. Of courseYou won't have much interaction with e.g. the HRE, but everyone east of Anatolia?

 

[Cardinal Sin]

Are we? My computer is not.

 

[anomanderus]

But only if you do not add the Uighurs and company. Thus you'd have them, the Mongols, the Koreans and with some luck the SE Asians, the Seldjuk may turn east instead of west and bother you - the Tang even had a small standoff with the Abbasids - , and you'd (hopefully) have a "Mandate of Heaven" mechanic, making governing a lot more difficult and revolts much more likely. Of courseYou won't have much interaction with e.g. the HRE, but everyone east of Anatolia?

You wouldn't have interaction with everyone east of Anatolia because the Taklimakan desert and Tibetan Plateau were formidable barriers that contributed massively to Chinese isolation because there wasn't anything worth conquering out there and the Chinese couldn't move their massive armies of infantry here and there with ease

The Mongols and other steppe peoples could because they were used to living off the land and congregated in much smaller but more effective hordes of cavalry

The Seljuks shouldn't go east because they were settled to the west of all those formidable barriers and already had a powerful Turkic horde to conquer the much closer Persian lands

Basically from your post it is as I originally suggested before ROI was even announced- that East Asia would be better as a standalone game

Are we? My computer is not.

That isn't "their problem". The pro-Chinese side's argument boils down to this: "I want China no matter how poorly represented with or without the historical tributaries of China while completely ignoring the near non-existent interactions between East Asia and West Asia/Europe besides the Mongol horde and regardless of how such an expansion would affect others"

 

[ruzen]

I think what people need Sengoku 2

 

[Baalshazar]

Some people want to watch the world burn.

 

[Tabris01]

You wouldn't have interaction with everyone east of Anatolia because the Taklimakan desert and Tibetan Plateau were formidable barriers that contributed massively to Chinese isolation because there wasn't anything worth conquering out there and the Chinese couldn't move their massive armies of infantry here and there with ease

The Mongols and other steppe peoples could because they were used to living off the land and congregated in much smaller but more effective hordes of cavalry

The Seljuks shouldn't go east because they were settled to the west of all those formidable barriers and already had a powerful Turkic horde to conquer the much closer Persian lands

Basically from your post it is as I originally suggested before ROI was even announced- that East Asia would be better as a standalone game

But the Mongols DID gather a large, effective cavelery. THey even conquered China with it.

And the existence of Taklamakan doesn't change the facto the Tang went to war with the Kalif just a couple of years before CM.

 

[Fishman786]

You wouldn't have interaction with everyone east of Anatolia because the Taklimakan desert and Tibetan Plateau were formidable barriers that contributed massively to Chinese isolation because there wasn't anything worth conquering out there and the Chinese couldn't move their massive armies of infantry here and there with ease

The Mongols and other steppe peoples could because they were used to living off the land and congregated in much smaller but more effective hordes of cavalry

The Seljuks shouldn't go east because they were settled to the west of all those formidable barriers and already had a powerful Turkic horde to conquer the much closer Persian lands

Basically from your post it is as I originally suggested before ROI was even announced- that East Asia would be better as a standalone game

There is a strip of steppe land and oases north of the Tarim Basin, which was used by most of the unified Chinese dynasties as a route to the west. The Tang dynasty conquered the settlements on the fringes of the Tarim basin (even the southwest side of it) and engaged in warfare with the Arabs and Turks in Transoxiana. The Chinese did have fairly close contact militarily-speaking with the parts of central Asia that are in CK2. And of course they had lots of trade, diplomatic and cultural contact as well, western religions like Christianity, Islam and Manichaeism all spread east via the Silk Road, which was almost like a 'Mediterranean sea', connecting otherwise distant societies in Asia just as the real Mediterranean connected Greece, Rome and Carthage.

South of the Silk road there's Indo-Chinese contact via the Tibetan Empire and via Hindu colonisation in southeast Asia. Buddhism was also a key theatre of cultural exchange between India and China, with Buddhist monks and scholars making a number of pilgrimages to holy sites in India. Islam and Christianity not only travelled along the silk road but penetrated China via the sea ways as well.


Not that I'm in favour of a China expansion owing to the performance issue, and also the fact that Paradox can't do Asia very well. They wouldn't do justice to China.

 

[caintheconfused]

Could've done without India, really don't want China. The worst bit is if such a DLC came to pass, just as with india, everyone would get the regions forced on them even if unplayable, and meh.

And can we stop talking CK3? My heart is set on more expansions and fluff for CK2 for another ~18 months so they can work on EUIV/HoIIV additions fervently...and then maybe a victoria 3 with converter so a real megacampaign becomes plausible c.c God that thought makes me giddy. CK2 ->EUIV ->Vic3 -> HoI4. Yum.

And, as others said, maybe a sengoku 2!

 

[Samdaman307]

I frankly just don't understand why someone would want China added to the game at this late stage. All it will be is a massive disappointment, and just be a reskin of feudal Europe. And for anyone saying "Oh, they'll just add new mechanics!", well, you can just look at the Muslims to know how that goes. They're essentially just Europeans with the addition of minor changes. Every nation in the game, regardless of where they are, still plays like a feudal European lord. The Muslims have been playable for 2 years now, and the decadence mechanic has still been broken for most of this time, only really getting a facelift in ROI. A dramatically new form of government for an entire map section is just not going to happen with the limited crew that is essentially watching over the game. And why bother with ~1 year of development, when they could be putting it towards something like CK3.

But I suppose the main issue is, what would even be fun about China, that isn't in the game already? The Song Dynasty had possible 100,000,000 people in 1066, which could easily annihilate any faction in the game. They could easily conquer the Liao at the gamestart, and could just steamroll the entire map. Also, they'd have gunpowder weapons far before the end of the game, which would be even more difficult to deal with. And this would be added to the difficulty of simulating the money gained from a city of 1 million people, which would mean any player would never have to worry about spending during the game. So let's say they do get nerfed, and can't really declare war on anyone. Then it'd just be a huge Holy Roman Empire, with maybe a few flavor events/decisions, like ROI.

China may have a large influence on the game map, but frankly, this just doesn't matter. Crusader Kings 2 doesn't simulate influence or trade. It simulates war and marriage. And frankly, the Devs removing provinces from the Abbasids in Charlemagne should tell you everything you need to know about Crusader King and Empires. It just simply can't handle states that go past the Kingdom level.

 

[LumberKing]

I need a new PC anyway. Plz bring Crusader Mings

Wrong dynasty, it should be the Songs of Crusade.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

No need for China. This is Crusader Kings, let's focus on making the Medieval experience deeper and more immersive instead of watering it down with huge new regions and new centuries that can't possibly be represented with feudal mechanics.

 

[simpfan1]

Play EU4 if you want China. That game is actually built to handle the world at large. CK2 is not. Stop asking for it.

 

[killerbee256]

Stop doing this, we are never getting a China DLC, nor do most of us want one. It's too big an area to add and it's not important to CK2's timeline. We already have enough problems with India slowing down the game and the character interaction ranges being messed up, we don't need another pointless map expansion. CK2 need more depth and bookmarks, not timeline updates or map expansions.

Hey "omega20056" despite what your ego tells you, you are not the whole of ck2 community.

 

[Fishman786]

Hey "omega20056" despite what your ego tell you, you are not the whole of ck2 community.

He's not, no. I am. Every other poster on this forum except for you and omega20056 is my alt account. Including the developers.