We're all set for a China DLC

[Me_]

With the introduction of the new Viceroys system for king and duke level titles in C, it would seem that centralized states can now (well, a week from now) be represented sensibly in CK2.

It would therefore appear to me that the last hurdle on the way for the China DLC has been removed.

What do you think? Is there anything left, that we're still missing? The new tribal system will make it possible to populate the steppe more sensibly, so that's out of the way as well.

 

[killerbee256]

Again I'm neutral on China, but this isn't about just Europe anymore.

Amen, it's become far more like Europa Universalis, which i think is a good thing. CK1 was a rather limited (and very buggy!) game.

 

[pirro]

If this is going to be EU like, I want a goverment system, laws, decisions and economy

 

[Baalshazar]

Amen, it's become far more like Europa Universalis, which i think is a good thing. CK1 was a rather limited (and very buggy!) game.

I want the historical events I've heard about from CK1

If this is going to be EU like, I want a goverment system, laws, decisions and economy

I just want Temujin events =<

 

[pirro]

Ck1 had events?
IDK, it crashed every 5 years

 

[Baalshazar]

Ck1 had events?
IDK, it crashed every 5 years

I've heard that it did!

 

[Finnway]

Well I think we should question the time extension parts of CK2, what were the important countries during these dates we have? It's not just Europe, it's also the Muslim, then there are the Steppe people which aren't really Europeans.

About the time extensions.
(1) The Viking Age was an important period that defined Medieval Europe's history.
(2) The medieval period arguably began with Charlemagne, and his conquests shaped the map of Europe for the rest of the Medieval period and beyond.
(3) Scandinavia and Western Russia are part of Europe. Adding mechanics for Pagans in is still relevant to the European theme.

And as I said in my original post, the societies outside of Europe (Muslims, India, and the Steppes) aren't represented in-game as accurately as Medieval Europe is.

Amen, it's become far more like Europa Universalis, which i think is a good thing. CK1 was a rather limited (and very buggy!) game.

Are you going to post a reason why you think that way? Posts like this don't really contribute to the discussion...

 

[pirro]

Spain, which is in Europe, is not really accurate

 

[Finnway]

Spain, which is in Europe, is not really accurate

Nonetheless, the holding/claim/law system is most accurate for representing medieval European society.

 

[pirro]

Nonetheless, the holding/claim/law system is most accurate for representing medieval European society.

European society was not monolithic, it was rather different one kingdom to the other.

 

[Baalshazar]

As for the time extensions. (1) The Viking Age is an important part of medieval Europe's history (2) Charlemagne and his heirs shaped the map of central Europe that lasted the entire medieval period and beyond. (3) Scandinavia and Western Russia are part of Europe, so adding mechanics for Pagans in those areas is still relevant.
And as I said in my original post. The societies outside of Europe aren't represented in-game as accurately as Medieval Europe is.

But, (1) it wasn't an important time for just Europe; it was an important time for the Muslims as well remember Seljuks and Abbasids and even India, Ghazvanids. (2) Well it may have shaped central Europe, but it also shaped Iberia and Middle East and even India for the next 300 or so years. Though they weren't all related to Charlemagne. (3) Still not represented well (which I have heard) and some countries didn't interact with western Europe, Perm, the steppes (besides Pechneg who migrated) and probably others.

Basically I just want to say that's it's not just Europe anymore. It's almost half of the world, but the real problem is there are only three people in the team and it's impossible to fully represent everyone.

Mongolia and Temujin and I'll be happy.

 

[toroltao]

Again I'm neutral on China (PC probably won't handle it), but this isn't about just Europe anymore.

I'd say CK2 is probably the least Eurocentric PI game so far if you disregard Sengoku.

 

[lemonsquid]

I'd say CK2 is probably the least Eurocentric PI game so far if you disregard Sengoku.

ROI yes I agree. For some reason people forgot that Scandinavia is Europe, Crusades involve the middle east, thats where the major crusades occurred. Eastern Europe involved the Teutonic Order who were European. Id say EU and Vicky are less Eurocentric. Hoi is the most Eurosentric.

 

[pirro]

I'd say CK2 is probably the least Eurocentric PI game so far if you disregard Sengoku.

Aside from RoI, everything added had a great effect on the european medieval world...

 

[Thure]

This thread is getting derailed (again.)

To bring this back to a point of contention. People were arguing about whether or not this game is about medieval Europe. Some people said it is others said it isn't. My question to pro-China supporters is this: if this game isn't about medieval Europe then what is it about, in your opinion?

After all, Catholics were the first playable characters. And Republics, Pagans (except Africans), and The Byzantines are all European. You could also argue that societies outside of Europe (Muslims and India) aren't represented well in-game (which is the big issue Muslim player are having right now) because the whole game is built around feudal society, which doesn't represent those cultures well. Just think about how claims, holdings, and laws work --it's all feudal. So how can you not say CK2 is about medieval Europe?

The feudalism work very well for India. And no the game isn't about medieval Europe. The game is about to play a dynasty in the middle ages.

 

[lemonsquid]

The feudalism work very well for India. And no the game isn't about medieval Europe. The game is about to play a dynasty in the middle ages.

"The Dark Ages might be drawing to a close, but Europe is still in turmoil. Petty lords vie against beleaguered kings who struggle to assert control over their fragmented realms. The Pope calls for a Crusade to protect the Christians in the Holy Land even as he refuses to relinquish control over the investiture of bishops - and their riches. Now is the time for greatness. Expand your demesne and secure the future of your dynasty."

"Medieval Europe is brought to life in this epic game of knights, schemes, and thrones... "

 

[anomanderus]

Amen, it's become far more like Europa Universalis, which i think is a good thing. CK1 was a rather limited (and very buggy!) game.

I don't want to play Europa Universalis with feudal stuff

If you want to play EU, then go play EU

Aside from RoI, everything added had a great effect on the european medieval world...

ROI was arguably added to give the Islamic world more land to retreat into and thus more land to strike back from even if the Europeans take large swathes of land

I want the historical events I've heard about from CK1



I just want Temujin events =<

And I suppose we should go back to the historical events from Victoria 1 and the older EU games?

 

[Cuthuthulu]

I've heard that it did!

It doesn't. The only events I remember from CK1 was the Black Death and the Mongols. CK1 was actually significant at the time since it was the only EU2 era game without lots of historical events.

 

[Baalshazar]

It doesn't. The only events I remember from CK1 was the Black Death and the Mongols. CK1 was actually significant at the time since it was the only EU2 era game without lots of historical events.

Ah, nevermind then.

 

[misiame]

This thread is getting derailed (again.)

To bring this back to a point of contention. People were arguing about whether or not this game is about medieval Europe. Some people said it is others said it isn't. My question to pro-China supporters is this: if this game isn't about medieval Europe then what is it about, in your opinion?

After all, Catholics were the first playable characters. And Republics, Pagans (except Africans), and The Byzantines are all European. You could also argue that societies outside of Europe (Muslims and India) aren't represented well in-game (which is the big issue Muslim player are having right now) because the whole game is built around feudal society, which doesn't represent those cultures well. Just think about how claims, holdings, and laws work --it's all feudal. So how can you not say CK2 is about medieval Europe?

Easy.

It's a dynastic roleplay strategy game which allows you to play as a multitude of characters of various religions, cultures, and regions in Eufrasia.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

ROI was arguably added to give the Islamic world more land to retreat into and thus more land to strike back from even if the Europeans take large swathes of land

Wasn't Iberia the only significant case of Europeans taking "large swathes of land" from Muslims? The Crusader States lasted for only about two hundred years, compared to the game's running-time of almost seven hundred years (with Charlemagne.) The nomadic conquerors, on the other hand (and later, the empire ruled by the House of Osman,) managed to conquer a significant amount of the Eastern Roman Empire.

Just not sure India was added as a place for the Muslims to "retreat" to.

And I suppose we should go back to the historical events from Victoria 1 and the older EU games?

Let's just hope the future games stear away from the railroading. Some of the things added in Europa Universalis IV were a bit worrying.