Well thought out wishlist for ussr updated focus tree

[jevry]

Remove the middle tree in its entirity and never look back.
Simply put.
The first 3 foci do effectively nothing, the infrastructure one of the tree upgrade RANDOM provinces. Which i am pretty sure is against the geneva convention.
210 days for -30% conversion cost is then up next. Self-explanatory why it must cease to exist.
Next up 420 days to change the opinions of some nations. Worthless.
Next up on the anti-fascism side:
About 280 days of focusses to get wargoals on countries *for which you already get free wargoals for from germany.*
Have i convinced you yet why this focus branch was probably made as an 1 april fools joke?
I think annexing tannu tuva is in there somewhere too but lmao who cares about tannu tuva?
Please nuke the midfle branch from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

Next up something not really much of an issue: the outer focusses. Make the great purge actually worth doing or an entry focus to the rest of the tree.
Lessons of war should only be doable after you fight a great power or the finns.
Atm i just cheese quick a war with lithuania.

Lastly: if you want the tank genius you need to not purge him AND take the objectively worse side of the economic focus tree (unless you think 10% tech speed from socialist science is a redeemimg factor, which is fair) Too harsh, make it an either-or.


I dont know about alt history stuff so i wont comment on this.

Dont need to comment on trotsky being broken im 100% sure when ussr gets a coat of paint he'll get fixed

One last thing: the ussr should get focusses that lets them ask nations, mainly usa, for lend-leases. (You wanted ussr to not be selfsufficient paradox and require support from the allies to win, make them actually lend lease the ussr then.)

 

[LastButterfly]

So if I understand correctly your well thought out updated soviet tree looks like this :

Spoiler: future soviet focus tree leaks

It's a bit... lacking.

 

[permanently_afk]

Edit: tl;dr: The soviets do foci in order to be spared punishment, and not for a reward.

The problem is that the soviet tree is and will be designed to somewhat hamper the player, to reflect the rather spotty (they had some great ideas, others...not so much) decisionmaking in the leadup to WW2. If it wouldn't be, we could rename the game into "Stalin wins everything forever" since the soviets have enough industry, manpower and the right ideology to simply go a-conquering. This makes it unique among tree that it doesn't resolve any previous problems (like e.g. for France), but instead should force the player to try for the least painful route. Which means that time-wasting and even negative focuses (hi, Great Purge) are on the schedule. And that is hard to do in a manner which engages the player.
And imho, there currently is a LOT of room for improvement.

Edit: Alternatively, slap some HEAVY negative national spirits on them, which then the player has to try to remove in time for WW2.

Thats for the general point, which mostly invalidates your premise. Now, for the details:

Remove the middle tree in its entirity and never look back.
Simply put.

See the post of @LastButterfly for the result of that.

The first 3 foci do effectively nothing, the infrastructure one of the tree upgrade RANDOM provinces. Which i am pretty sure is against the geneva convention.
210 days for -30% conversion cost is then up next. Self-explanatory why it must cease to exist.
Next up 420 days to change the opinions of some nations. Worthless.

Deliberate time-wasting. Not exactly elegant, but that is the purpose of that segment. Or, you can, you know, use the time for the industrial and Stalin Constitution part of the tree.

Next up on the anti-fascism side:
About 280 days of focusses to get wargoals on countries *for which you already get free wargoals for from germany.*
Have i convinced you yet why this focus branch was probably made as an 1 april fools joke?
I think annexing tannu tuva is in there somewhere too but lmao who cares about tannu tuva?

No you haven't convinced me. Soviet foreign policy was rather sluggish until WW2.

Next up something not really much of an issue: the outer focusses. Make the great purge actually worth doing or an entry focus to the rest of the tree.

The great purge saves you from having to fight a civil war. That certainly is reward enough. I'd be very much in favor for increasing the penalty stemming from it (and disabling the "new officers" events, so it stays meaningful longer).

Lessons of war should only be doable after you fight a great power or the finns.
Atm i just cheese quick a war with lithuania.

I'd take away your cheese by disabling justify after the great purge.

Lastly: if you want the tank genius you need to not purge him AND take the objectively worse side of the economic focus tree (unless you think 10% tech speed from socialist science is a redeemimg factor, which is fair) Too harsh, make it an either-or.

As stated before, the soviet tree is about taking the least bad option. Not about building Super-Soviet-Man. That came after and during the war.

One last thing: the ussr should get focusses that lets them ask nations, mainly usa, for lend-leases. (You wanted ussr to not be selfsufficient paradox and require support from the allies to win, make them actually lend lease the ussr then.)

Decisions would be better. Especially with all the AH-Stuff going on, you can't be certain which majors you fight against and which ones have the same enemy.

 

[jevry]

So if I understand correctly your well thought out updated soviet tree looks like this :

Spoiler: future soviet focus tree leaks

View attachment 644234

It's a bit... lacking.

i should note this does not include anything new they could add. but yes this as a baseline is not an awfull start.

The sentiment is put this simple because the middle tree is litterally not worth taking at all.
personally i just skip it entirely, because the political power from not doing it is way more usefull.
and your edit technically is the entire ussr focus tree excluding the focusses that are worthwhile.

Edit: tl;dr: The soviets do foci in order to be spared punishment, and not for a reward.

The problem is that the soviet tree is and will be designed to somewhat hamper the player, to reflect the rather spotty (they had some great ideas, others...not so much) decisionmaking in the leadup to WW2. If it wouldn't be, we could rename the game into "Stalin wins everything forever" since the soviets have enough industry, manpower and the right ideology to simply go a-conquering. This makes it unique among tree that it doesn't resolve any previous problems (like e.g. for France), but instead should force the player to try for the least painful route. Which means that time-wasting and even negative focuses (hi, Great Purge) are on the schedule. And that is hard to do in a manner which engages the player.
And imho, there currently is a LOT of room for improvement.

Edit: Alternatively, slap some HEAVY negative national spirits on them, which then the player has to try to remove in time for WW2.

that is a good point and i didn't forget about this, i just didn't really address this. (the title may or may not be slightly sarcastic)
but while i do agree the ussr shouldn't get it easy, if there is no reward for doing the focusses then the better option simply is to not do them at all. and that is a large issue with them for me. additionally 210 days of nothing is alot of time for a player to get bored. currently it is a joke of a branch for these reasons. at best you can call it a noob-trap. because ~840 pp from not doing any focus or doing continuous foci is way more usefull

now the great purge while yes, it is important to avoid an annoying civil war, but check this out: if you don't do it you trade in that awfull debuff in exchange for only having to deal with ~18 half-eqquiped divisions in a strategically unimportant location. and personally i don't do the focus until i have completed all the other worthwhile foci (because yes there are less than 11, around the maximum amount of foci you can do before you cant avoid the civil war anymore)
so this is why i suggest the trotsky or stalin decisions should gate more focusses to make it actually worth doing the purge.

with the middle tree what i'm pointing at is that the bottom 1/3rd of the tree needs to get something that really makes you say "yes, i need this badly". (and no, duplicate wargoals does not count as something you'd ever really need.) the top part of the branch is and feels extremely barren due to the 210 day do-nothing foci and i hope that at least they'll change the two 210 day foci to 3 seperate foci each with a tiny reward (or reduction of starting-malusses).
if infrastructure doesnt get changes (or even if it does) the infra focus should not give random states infrastructure. it is absolutely abhorrent.
keeping in mind AH stuff the wargoals can technically stay, but they should either be seperated and put in a different tree OR should have an added trigger that bypasses them if germany has done the molotov-ribbentrop pact. after these wargoals focuses there then could be somekind of reward, for example a boost to compliance in the newly (or soon to be) occupied states, or developing something there.

you do note that the ussr starts doing better after the war starts, this is a great idea. expand the focus branch under "lessons of war" MASSIVELY. because currently the ussr runs out of (worthwhile) foci around 1941-1942.
same for dissabling justifying wars while the great purge is in effect. (and it speaks for itself there would have to be a change for the wargoals gained from germany so the ussr can actually declare the winter war)

and again this is all what should be changed for the historical route and basegame (aka free-patch) changes.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

The USSR is one of those few nations that can always being doing stuff and even though its focus tree is bad. Luckily Most actions arent tied to it. To name a few:

- Spanish Civil war (Gain a Puppet in Western Europe)
- Lend leasing/Sending Volunteers to China
- Couping a low stability country - even France for a new Major in the Comintern
- Declaring your own wars, (You can get one for free before WW2 not counting the claims by the M-R Pact)
- Guarantee Commie China and allow them to execute Chiang-kai-shek. Allowing for an Early war in China and a early PRC in the Comintern.

All before you even get close to WW2, you can already dictate it.

I'm sure theres more I could think off but these are the ones that come to mind and all of them done without a focus. The USSR is one of the best countries in the game if you free yourself from needing a focus to be so.

The last thing I want to see in a USSR focus Tree is something like the newest trees we have. Where the country is artificially gimped so no action can be taken till 1940's.

 

[DicRoNero]

Well thought out wishlist for ussr updated focus tree

Spoiler: future soviet focus tree leaks

View attachment 644234

That's a really nice lollaboration we've got here.
Can you both please share how a barely thought-out one will look like?

 

[opsircrocodile]

Next up on the anti-fascism side:
About 280 days of focusses to get wargoals on countries *for which you already get free wargoals for from germany.*
Have i convinced you yet why this focus branch was probably made as an 1 april fools joke?

that subbranch was made in case Germany doesn't do the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact


also I do agree that the 2 210 focuses should be removed, USSR should also have more bad national spirits that get removed trough focuses to balance it.

 

[GrandVezir]

Can you both please share how a barely thought-out one will look like?

I'm not one of those posters, but it might look like this:

Spoiler