Well seems Q1 isnt gonna happen damn it

[captainobvious2]

I am not in charge of communication, but honestly, would you really have been any less frustrated from an official communication or indeed, silence? I think the release is what people care about, not whether information about it was communicated through twitter.

I disagree. While everyone here cares about the release date obviously, the manner in which you present information goes a long way towards setting the attitude you want to see.

Take the most recent example. Johan's tweet gave no information other than Q1 wasn't going to happen. The response was subsequently a lot of speculation, anger and frustration because people drew their own conclusions with what caused the delay.

Imagine if the response was more detailed, something like "Q1 is not going to happen, the civil war mechanic has an issue where the revolting party declares war on Germany, and we are still looking for the cause. We have no ETA as to the next Beta submission, or as to a revised release date at this time. More information will follow at a later date"

You will still get a few angry people, but I guarantee you that the majority of people will be satisfied with an info update like that because it gives the reader a little insight into what is causing the problem and takes all of the speculation out of it. You would also have this great community backing you with this type of response because the majority of your clientele are adults, not whiny little children.

That is my perspective of this whole thing. You guys (Paradox) are really shooting yourself in the foot by how you present your updates.

P.S. Wiz gets my vote for head of communication. I get more satisfying responses from you then the other developers

 

[tallray1984]

I did the meme post on Hearts of Iron Facebook.

 

[tallray1984]

I did the meme post on Hearts of Iron Facebook.

I have not heard no reply form Heart of Iron posters?

 

[magitsu]

Imagine if the response was more detailed, something like "Q1 is not going to happen, the civil war mechanic has an issue where the revolting party declares war on Germany, and we are still looking for the cause. We have no ETA as to the next Beta submission, or as to a revised release date at this time. More information will follow at a later date"

Hardly ever the reasons are that specific. Usually so complex that they are bound to raise speculation no matter what.

 

[captainobvious2]

Hardly ever the reasons are that specific. Usually so complex that they are bound to raise speculation no matter what.

Agreed, it was just an example. I was trying to show that giving a general update on the problem is better than nothing at all. I'm not asking for a detailed report on the issue, as that would take to much time to write and most people would misconstrue it as you mentioned.

 

[Oakfan]

I disagree. While everyone here cares about the release date obviously, the manner in which you present information goes a long way towards setting the attitude you want to see.

Take the most recent example. Johan's tweet gave no information other than Q1 wasn't going to happen. The response was subsequently a lot of speculation, anger and frustration because people drew their own conclusions with what caused the delay.

Imagine if the response was more detailed, something like "Q1 is not going to happen, the civil war mechanic has an issue where the revolting party declares war on Germany, and we are still looking for the cause. We have no ETA as to the next Beta submission, or as to a revised release date at this time. More information will follow at a later date"

You will still get a few angry people, but I guarantee you that the majority of people will be satisfied with an info update like that because it gives the reader a little insight into what is causing the problem and takes all of the speculation out of it. You would also have this great community backing you with this type of response because the majority of your clientele are adults, not whiny little children.

That is my perspective of this whole thing. You guys (Paradox) are really shooting yourself in the foot by how you present your updates.

P.S. Wiz gets my vote for head of communication. I get more satisfying responses from you then the other developers

THIS!!!!! thank you lord, someone else feels like I do.

 

[Axe99]

People need to stop kissing their behind and accept that they did commit a huge failure, which now grows in frustration!

Stop defending Paradox for their history of failures its not that bright as people make it look like..

We're not kissing their behind, but in this case they have apologised for announcing it too early and already agreed it was a mistake (and did that a long, long time ago, and have mentioned it again when people have forgotten). A gaming company that admits fault is a bonus in itself! They've said on the forums (and Wiz/Johan/both posted fairly recently, I think, but my memory's pretty woozy) that it'll be done when it's done, which is still the official story.

 

[Aries666]

I'd be totally fine with the wait if one of the devs did a daily blog on nonsense they do in the office just to keep me looking at a positive and fun thread instead of nonstop let down with very little interaction. Doesn't even have to be on the forum, make it twitter, pretty simple limited characters maybe a picture. Hell I don't care if its a picture of Johan in drag or Groogy and podcat playing beer pong in office hours. Or a screenshot of the game totally photoshopped to look like a rip off of a total war game or civ. Just give us things to chew on. Remember we are as much fans as customers and while you guys are a game design company, you are one of rarest kind, your developers have an almost direct line to your customers. Hell I can't think of any other game where I actually had developers on my friendslist in skype and steam.

My main working theory on your secrecy of the delay is that you guys are trying to work out dx12 features ingame to enable awesome Async Compute support which in my humble opinion is precisely what the clausewitz engine needs. Its almost like Microsoft dx12 devs play Paradox games. Please, please, please, PLEASE communicate with us more, it doesn't need to be nuts and bolts, and it certainly doesn't need to be on topic. Make it fun and I guarentee you that you will score big with your fans/customers. You guys so need a communications director.

I hope this was supposed to be ironic. Why do people think they are entitled to exhaustive updates, even daily! Games developers should be doing their job not catering to the every whim of people on the Internet. Just chill, learn some patience, find something alternative to do with your time and pick up HOI4 when is is released. Simple really.

 

[Sinbuster]

Man, I seem to remember when just getting a post from a developer was a big deal. Johan actually responded to a few of my queries way back when and I was pleased as punch he would take the time to communicate. Nowadays if a developer hasn't spoken with six online gaming websites in a week or updated their twitter account twice a day, the gamers are up in arms. CK2 set a high standard on release, HOI4 wasn't going to reach it so it's been delayed. It's one of Paradox's key projects so of course it will be released and of course it will be good. Do you need Paradox to tell you that every day? Read between the lines, accept the fact they are only a bunch of nerds (er, developers) creating video games and move on with things. Last I checked there are dozens and dozens of amazing games to try in the meantime. Simply obsessing over one game that is guaranteed to come out is like complaining about the lack of warm weather in winter.

 

[hkrommel]

Yeah honestly it's a communications issue at this point. "We want to release a polished product" and "it's done when it's done" are both valid reasons, but not satisfying.

We, as consumers and supporters (we all want HoI4 to be great and for Paradox to succeed), want to know more about why the delays are so bad. "Polishing" isn't really any explanation. Saying what you're polishing would satisfy the masses much more. Saying "we're polishing things like the supply mechanic because we had an issue with which ports it chose to send supplies through" or "we're trying to fix the AI because Poland always conquers Sweden by 1938" gives us a much clearer picture on what's being worked on, and is a much more satisfying answer than "we're working on stuff."

Again, we're not entitled to these sorts of updates but it takes almost zero effort to reveal a little more of what is being specifically worked on, and it will certainly reassure people more and increase Paradox's reputation as a developer that communicates with its fans (which is beneficial to everyone, since it makes Paradox more money through loyalty and reputation).

 

[Aries666]

Yeah honestly it's a communications issue at this point. "We want to release a polished product" and "it's done when it's done" are both valid reasons, but not satisfying.

We, as consumers and supporters (we all want HoI4 to be great and for Paradox to succeed), want to know more about why the delays are so bad. "Polishing" isn't really any explanation. Saying what you're polishing would satisfy the masses much more. Saying "we're polishing things like the supply mechanic because we had an issue with which ports it chose to send supplies through" or "we're trying to fix the AI because Poland always conquers Sweden by 1938" gives us a much clearer picture on what's being worked on, and is a much more satisfying answer than "we're working on stuff."

Again, we're not entitled to these sorts of updates but it takes almost zero effort to reveal a little more of what is being specifically worked on, and it will certainly reassure people more and increase Paradox's reputation as a developer that communicates with its fans (which is beneficial to everyone, since it makes Paradox more money through loyalty and reputation).

Weekly diaries on game content, weekly videos, regular interaction with devs and now you want to know the weekly work schedule? Anything else they can do for you?

 

[badd]

Yeah honestly it's a communications issue at this point. "We want to release a polished product" and "it's done when it's done" are both valid reasons, but not satisfying.

We, as consumers and supporters (we all want HoI4 to be great and for Paradox to succeed), want to know more about why the delays are so bad. "Polishing" isn't really any explanation. Saying what you're polishing would satisfy the masses much more. Saying "we're polishing things like the supply mechanic because we had an issue with which ports it chose to send supplies through" or "we're trying to fix the AI because Poland always conquers Sweden by 1938" gives us a much clearer picture on what's being worked on, and is a much more satisfying answer than "we're working on stuff."

Again, we're not entitled to these sorts of updates but it takes almost zero effort to reveal a little more of what is being specifically worked on, and it will certainly reassure people more and increase Paradox's reputation as a developer that communicates with its fans (which is beneficial to everyone, since it makes Paradox more money through loyalty and reputation).

I'm quite frankly baffled by this attitude. You do realise that the stuff Paradox already sharing is above and beyond what most other devs do? And yet it's still not enough? I don't get it, i really don't.

 

[DaAvenger]

Weekly diaries on game content, weekly videos, regular interaction with devs and now you want to know the weekly work schedule? Anything else they can do for you?

This. They're very communicative, and have been clear about what stage the game is in. It is accepted alpha, and they are pushing to get to beta (which was the update we got in DD #37). Nothing has changed since that time, but apparently the Devs now need to report on the lack of news. And honestly, the news that they weren't in beta yet should have been sufficient to indicate that a Q1 release wasn't going to happen.

 

[Wimpola]

I never heard of a Q1 as I know of, its always been late in Q2 2016. However this game has been postponed countless times so anything can happen.

 

[CplKatie]

Well my reason for wanting more interaction is mainly because every day the game goes past its old due date I feel more and more like I did waiting for Warcraft Adventures. Don't get me wrong, I've never touched WoW, I'm not one of THOSE players. I was a teenage nerd back then and claim no responsibility for my actions as I was riddled with pimples and braces and had no good role model. But anyway, I think its clear after going through everything as much as I have and reading between the lines in each random rare gem of honest responses from devs, that the final peice of Hoi4 is AI and I believe without a doubt that its completely related to the fact that Dx12 is literally going to change the way computer AI works for just about all genres but most importantly Grand strategy/RTS/RPG's. Its literally the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[GermanPower]

Clearly Paradox is having issues with the game. Thats the biggest damning thing to say about not being able to reach a date set for yourself/company.

(As for information)
I see some validity in each side. Paradox is independently developing a game at their cost. They have no shareholders here to have to say anything to. However from a business standpoint keeping the community happy is important as they let the cat outta the bag. They don't technically owe anyone anything. Its produce at their cost and means they have no connection to the community other then the one they decide to create for themselves. AKA this forum. So point being they can do whatever they want within the bonds to the customer. They have no own up,nor should they.

(Dearest Customer)
But besides information given they are simply showing how badly they are at estimating and effectively making a finished product. I order a cheeseburger. 2 days later it gets here. Not ordering from there anymore. Thats effectively what's happening. Loosing customers as they delay and I'm sure they know that. Maybe putting the right spin on this whole inability to actually meets deadlines can help soften whatever market impact them delaying so much will have. Yet. It seems many people are already complaining about little given information on the subject. So my point being from a smart business standpoint its best to give out as much information as possible in order to keep people happy and informed on the cat you let out.

(What I find to be true)
Its true they don't owe anyone anything. But it's also true they are loosing initial revenue if they decide to keep puppies hushed. Least from my logic.

(Raising Questions)
Bethesda, EA, Ubisoft all are capable of setting and meeting dates constantly. It makes me wonder what exactly is going on? Why can't they meet or even match that? Some are saying its a 2 year missed window? Why? How? Whats going on daily in the studio? Who's messing up? WHat are they doing wrong? Why is it impossible for them to set a date? Is this all just a major f up because they announced to soon or is it something more? Is the game gonna be worth anything considering the setbacks that have been stated? Lots and lots of questions that ideally shouldn't be coming up on a new release due to yourself/company messing up.

(Its a cluster fudge)
The Paradoxical ARising Announcement Dates Out of a Xenoverse
Its not good anyway you spend it. Announcing dates and missing them is never good. So what you can do is choose to loose interest or not.Its as simple as that. A lot of what paradox is doing has made me loose a lot of interest in the company..this is me personally and I'm not abandoning ship because I love the games they make but it does worry me about the company itself. I'm not one to just dumbly go its fine its fine its fine. It raises to many questions to be brushed off as such. Hopefully they'll fix whatever they are doing wrong and release games in the future with better timetables. The answer always could be simply such as them being overambitious. No clue but for myself it'd be nice to get some clear cut information on the matter. Thats all. Not a apology but some real information on the issue. It'd be nice.

 

[war_biscuit]

This is not how software development works. You can throw more people at a problem, but effectiveness of manpower is not linear and new people on the project will inevitably introduce bugs and issues that might fail the very milestone they were meant to save. You can make everyone work 12 hour days but after a couple weeks their work efficiency tanks and you end up with less done and more bugs than a normal scheudle if you let it go on past that point. You can 'meet the deadline' by lowering your ambitions and proclaiming yourself done whatever the actual standard you were originally supposed to meet. You can not magically meet both deadlines and quality standards by rolling up your shirtsleeves and saying the pledge of allegiance while a bald eagle flies overhead.

I understand it was in response to a cheap shot, but seeing that you're being the representative of your company here, is a follow up nationalistic insult, which can apply to a sizeable portion of your customer base really necessary? Is Paradox essentially saying, "you don't understand why this nearly year delinquent project can't be sped up because Americans are stupid," the message you want to convey now, or really any time?

 

[captainobvious2]

Man, I seem to remember when just getting a post from a developer was a big deal. Johan actually responded to a few of my queries way back when and I was pleased as punch he would take the time to communicate. Nowadays if a developer hasn't spoken with six online gaming websites in a week or updated their twitter account twice a day, the gamers are up in arms. CK2 set a high standard on release, HOI4 wasn't going to reach it so it's been delayed. It's one of Paradox's key projects so of course it will be released and of course it will be good. Do you need Paradox to tell you that every day? Read between the lines, accept the fact they are only a bunch of nerds (er, developers) creating video games and move on with things. Last I checked there are dozens and dozens of amazing games to try in the meantime. Simply obsessing over one game that is guaranteed to come out is like complaining about the lack of warm weather in winter.

Weekly diaries on game content, weekly videos, regular interaction with devs and now you want to know the weekly work schedule? Anything else they can do for you?

I'm quite frankly baffled by this attitude. You do realise that the stuff Paradox already sharing is above and beyond what most other devs do? And yet it's still not enough? I don't get it, i really don't.

Man, you guys are tough. Maybe I missed something, but no one is complaining about the frequency of updates. It is how they are delivering them. Paradox was the one who stated that the game would be going for beta submission shortly before Christmas, and then said nothing about it after that. The date came and went, and people started to ask questions about whether the beta submission was accepted or not.

Now I understand it's the Christmas holiday, and I was expecting to not get any new information until the 4th. I still checked the forum everyday but I honestly wasn't expecting anything.

Then the twitter post came out with a cryptic "not a chance" when asked if the game was coming out in Q1 2016. Now, what good did that post do to these forums? It created a storm of speculation and frustration about the state of the game, because there was simply no information in the post. I am sure Johan had great intentions by responding to the poster but it had adverse effects in the long run because everything he and the other devs say is under the microscope.

I am just trying to help with some insight here so they can make their lives easier with this sort of thing. Dev diaries and the follow up posts are great methods of communications, as our the let's play videos. What hurts them is throwing out prospective dates, and then letting them lapse or approach without saying anything.

Just my .02. I will be buying whether it comes out now or end of the year, as I have done with every other game they have made.

 

[DaAvenger]

I never heard of a Q1 as I know of, its always been late in Q2 2016. However this game has been postponed countless times so anything can happen.

Not countless times. Twice. I counted them with my fingers just to be sure:

First delay: Q1 2015 to Late Q2 2015
Second delay: Late Q2 2015 to TBD

Late Q2 2016 is just another made up date. Afaik, they've still not announced a date. I believe there has even been a forum thread or two created on this subject as of late.

Well my reason for wanting more interaction is mainly because every day the game goes past its old due date I feel more and more like I did waiting for Warcraft Adventures. Don't get me wrong, I've never touched WoW, I'm not one of THOSE players. I was a teenage nerd back then and claim no responsibility for my actions as I was riddled with pimples and braces and had no good role model. But anyway, I think its clear after going through everything as much as I have and reading between the lines in each random rare gem of honest responses from devs, that the final peice of Hoi4 is AI and I believe without a doubt that its completely related to the fact that Dx12 is literally going to change the way computer AI works for just about all genres but most importantly Grand strategy/RTS/RPG's. Its literally the best thing since sliced bread.

I seriously doubt that DX12 is a factor. That is the kind of change you make when you're starting development, not finishing. As a Linux user, I would also hope that they move towards Vulkan, not DX12. But I agree that the long-term potential of these new APIs should really improve the software side of things (and we're also on the verge of a big GPU performance jump as well).

I understand it was in response to a cheap shot, but seeing that you're being the representative of your company here, is a follow up nationalistic insult, which can apply to a sizeable portion of your customer base really necessary? Is Paradox essentially saying, "you don't understand why this nearly year delinquent project can't be sped up because Americans are stupid," the message you want to convey now, or really any time?

Looking back at the post that Wiz was responding to, that post specifically references a "North American" work attitude:

I don't know if I'm just applying a North American work attitude to a socialist-european one (which tend to be more laid back) but I'd really like PDX to get their butt in gear.

Not to mention that this post is effectively saying that Europeans are lazy and Paradox just isn't trying very hard. That comment was entirely uncalled for, and I don't blame Wiz at all for taking offense to it. Besides, he is hardly making fun of all Americans, just the over-the-top "America is #1" attitude.

Plus, he actually gave a reasoned response. It is well understood in software development circles that adding developers to a late project makes it later.

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

I'd rather have a polished release two years from now than have a buggy release in a month. Maybe if HOI4 was the only video game in the world, but I have plenty of other games to play (and other ways to spend my leisure time) that a game being pushed back so that its developers can make it better isn't a problem.

Maybe you guys have some vested interest that I don't, but I'm not sure what the fuss is about.