Welfs not represented

[ArmchairGeneral]

The Welfs, one of the greatest families in German history are not represented in the 1066 game. They controled the provence known as Swabia in the game and the hohenstaufen should control Ulm if anything.

 

[caknuck]

The Welfs, one of the greatest families in German history are not represented in the 1066 game. They controled the provence known as Swabia in the game and the hohenstaufen should control Ulm if anything.

There's a bunch of Welfs in northern Italy. I think a Welf (Bruno?) is Duke of Milano at the start of the scenario.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

The map you posted isn't obviously 1066 map (as there's Almohads and all). Also, there is Guelph Welf as the first heir of duke of Milan in 1066, so the Welfs are there.

 

[Lotus Lo]

I have noticed naming inconsistencies... could that be the reason?

Guelphs instead of Welfs?
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0822052.html

Duke of Milano (Azzo d'Este) 1st born son is Guelph Welf and is a courtier in the Duchy of Bavaria.

 

[caknuck]

If I can remember my High Middle Ages history course correctly, "Guelph" is just a latinized spelling of "Welf".

 

[unmerged(22135)]

The Problem with the Welfs in CK is, that their great time was between the szenario start dates. In 1066 all important lines (vor example burgundy) were allready extinct, and in 1187 the big struggle with the Hohenstaufen was already lost. Thus, it's nearly impossilbe to play the Welfen in a CK that is resembling there role in German history.

Yours sincerely,
OG

 

[unmerged(35826)]

Don't know why, but my court is full of them.

 

[Caranorn]

In my current game as Duke of Bavaria I was also troubled by the multiplying Welfs in my court. I thought I'd settle it by handing Guelph the Welf his own county (Innsbruck which I'd earlier ceised from an inapt bishop). That is until I realised that Guelph was the heir to Milano and that he's pull Insbruck away from me at his inheritance. So I promptly ceised Innsbruck (Guelph had apparently appreicated my generous gift over 15 years and just moved to Milano andI handed Insbruck back to a new bishop (I was a bit worried about my now negative piety)).

So the Welfs are indeed there and I expect in my game I will meet them again as I believe Guelph has 8+ sons by now and even if Milano is relatively small I expect they will nicely spread across Europe from there.

 

[unmerged(22135)]

Their might be many Welf courtiers, however there is no szenario were any of there traditional lands (Saxony and Bavaria, it was Heinrich der Löwe (the Lion) most famous Welf of all times (o.k. maybe second to Ernst-August) how founded Munich) is held by them. I believe many of the German players are a little disappoint about this because many of them wanted to try to reverte history and lead the Lion to a victory against the Hohenstaufens.

Yours sincerly,
OG

 

[unmerged(6777)]

They could make a scenario that starts or is set in a time period when the dynasty ruled. For the three scenarios in the official version of the game, they are not a ruling dynasty because -- at the dates when each scenario starts -- they were not historically ruling.

For a quick fix, you could replace a ruler or two in one of the scenarios...

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Btw. while we are about rulers and istakes in dynasties(I don't want to hijack this thread) may I point out that nephew of 'King Petar Kresimir'('King of Croatia') didn't had a son so a certain 'Slavich' shouldn't be there.

Also Duke of Slavonia(and in history the heir to Petar Kresimir) should be named 'Dmitar Zvonimir' not 'Zvonimir Dmitar'.

 

[Caranorn]

They could make a scenario that starts or is set in a time period when the dynasty ruled. For the three scenarios in the official version of the game, they are not a ruling dynasty because -- at the dates when each scenario starts -- they were not historically ruling.

For a quick fix, you could replace a ruler or two in one of the scenarios...

Or just start the 1066 scenario as any country. Select Modena and kill it's duke via the F12 - die cheat. save the game and reload as Modena (which will now have Guelph the Welf as ruler.

For more fun start the game as Germany, change sucession laws to elective, kill of the duke of Modena save and reload as Modena.

P.S.: Bavaria was in the hands of the Luxembourg-Nordheim (that family seems to be descended from the two Luxembourg Siegfrieds (founder of the line and his namesake son) since the end of the 10th century. Obviously I'm not a specialist of the Welfs (and no friend of them either as I tend to side with good old red-beard), but I don't see how they could hve ruled that duchy during the period.

 

[unmerged(28030)]

Don't know why, but my court is full of them.

The Welfs have got a virtual monopoly on north-west Italy in 1066, they're breedn' like rats, and my court is slam full of the SOBs.

 

[unmerged(22135)]

The Luxemburger and Northeims ruled in the early years of the 11. century. However, they were in 1070 followed by Welf I.

Luxemburger

* 1004 - 1009 Heinrich V. von Lothringen
* 1009 - 1017 Heinrich IV. (zum 2. Mal)
* 1018 - 1026 Heinrich V. von Lothringen (zum 2. Mal)
* 1026 - 1027 Konrad I.
* 1027 - 1042 Heinrich VI.
* 1042 - 1047 Heinrich VII. von Luxemburg
* 1047 - 1049 Heinrich VI. (zum 2. Mal)
* 1049 - 1053 Konrad von Zütphen

Salier

* 1053 - 1054 Heinrich VIII.
* 1054 - 1055 Konrad III.
* 1055 - 1061 Agnes

Von Supplinburg

* 1061 - 1070 Otto II. von Northeim

Welfen

* 1070 - 1077 Welf I.
* 1077 - 1095 Heinrich VIII. (zum 2. Mal)
* 1096 - 1101 Welf I. (zum 2. Mal)
* 1101 - 1120 Welf II.
* 1120 - 1126 Heinrich IX., der Schwarze
* 1126 - 1139 Heinrich X., der Stolze
* 1139 - 1141 Leopold, Babenberger
* 1143 - 1156 Heinrich XI. Jasomirgott, Babenberger
* 1156 - 1180 Heinrich XII., der Löwe

source

As it can be easily seen, and as MrT pointed out, the Welfs managed to rule exactly between the CK-szenario dates missing Hastings by four years and the second szenario by eight years. Damed bastards, didn't they know?

Yours sincerely,
OG

 

[Caranorn]

Just on the part of the Northeims, I only just realised that they only held Bavaria for a few years (Otto getting deposed...). I probably got matetrs mixed up due to the 7 dukes of the Luxembourg and Northeim dynasties (the Northeims according to recent research appearing to be descended from Siegfried II of Luxembourg (Siegfried I being the dynastic founder (even though Konrad, CK's 1066 Luxembourgish count is actually the first to have born the name and title))). I must have assumed only a small number were of the Luxembourg name, leaving a larger number of Northeims.

Sad really that there is no way for the Welfs to gain Bavaria in CK (maybe in the female line as Welf iirc is married to Otto's daughter (or did I just marry them in my game...) but that's rather unlikely (as Otto starts with children)). But then, that's one of the aspects of feudalism not covered in CK, how titles revert to the king and not to country-cousins or anything of the sort (even that would not solve the Northeim to Welf sucession as the Northeims survived for several generations after losing Bavaria).

 

[Styrbiorn]

Their might be many Welf courtiers, however there is no szenario were any of there traditional lands (Saxony and Bavaria, it was Heinrich der Löwe (the Lion) most famous Welf of all times (o.k. maybe second to Ernst-August) how founded Munich) is held by them. I believe many of the German players are a little disappoint about this because many of them wanted to try to reverte history and lead the Lion to a victory against the Hohenstaufens.

Yours sincerly,
OG

Try the county of Lüneburg next time you play the 1187 scenario

 

[ArmchairGeneral]

Welfs are in every scenario

They could make a scenario that starts or is set in a time period when the dynasty ruled. For the three scenarios in the official version of the game, they are not a ruling dynasty because -- at the dates when each scenario starts -- they were not historically ruling.

For a quick fix, you could replace a ruler or two in one of the scenarios...

The Welfs in 1066 control only the Swabian lands listed in the map. Guelph Welf is really Guelph (Welf) Welf-Este of the house of Este. He was named for the elder welfs so that the line could continue. The Welfs gained their lands in Saxony through marriage to Otto of Nordheim's grand daughter. In 1066 they should be counts in the Swabian lands (Swabia or Ulm or both). In the 1087 Scenario they are called the Brunswicks after Otto the child, first Duke of Brunswick. Also in the 1087 scenario Henry Welf should be the count of Pfalz.

As for Bavaria, Otto should not hold any lands in Bavaria - even though he is the Duke of Bavaria. He is a Saxon and led the Saxon revolt against the Salians after being deposed as Duke of Bavaria (the Bavarians didn't like the fact that a Saxon was ruling over them). He controls the county of Goettingen in the game.

The Brunswick's of Friesia should also control Brunswick and be vassals of the Billungs. These Brunswicks are the Brunonings, the last line of the Ludolfings (the Ottonian Kings of Germany). They should also have a claim on the lands of Meissen.

Rudolf Rheinfelded, Duke of Swabia, should control only the Aargau as personal lands. Perhaps you could move the Hapsburgs (a name that did not yet exist) to St. Gallen (the original lands of that family until the death of the last Burgundian Zaeringen) and the Hohenstaufen counts to Fuestenberg and Wuettemberg where the Hohenstaufen originally came from (they were originally called the Waiblingens but were better known in latter years as the Hohenstaufen after a castle by that name.)

Also one minor fix. (The Aethlingen's Edgar and Margaret in the court of Malcom King of the Scots - should both have claims on the Kingdom of England - they are the rightful heirs.)

I would be happy to help with establishing the hereditary lands of any of the German princes in any of the scenarios. I could make the actual changes myself, and would be happy to do so, but I would like to see such changes reflected in a real patch. (I hate having to keep coming back after a fresh install and making new changes.) It always makes the game better.

By the way, I have only recently come back to play this game because of the work being done at this time. I was really disappointed in this game and am glad to see something is being done, even if Paradox is not officially working on it.

 

[Styrbiorn]

Also in the 1087 scenario Henry Welf should be the count of Pfalz.

Why? Konrad von Hohenstaufen was Count Palatine in 1187, while the Welfs got it through marriage after Konrad's death... which means the setup is erronoeous anyway.

Post all errors you can find, preferably with some source (English or German)