Weird War?

[incognitus]

Germany fired the "Danzig or War" event on 1st September 1939 against Poland, which was guaranteed by Britain and had joined the Allies. Poland was overrun within a matter of weeks and now (January 1940) nothing is happening. There is no fighting anywhere and the funniest thing, Germany is at war with all Allies, but the Allies are only at war with Germany and Slovakia. Italy and Hungary are still at peace.

In case it matters, I am playing Japan, have at this point conquered the USA, Nat China, Com China, Shanxi, Canada, Mexico, Panama, Honduras, Colombia, Venezuela, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, Ireland, Portugal, Nat Spain, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Greece. Basically, what I did, other than the scripted war against China, is attack everyone that was in danger of joining the Allies or Comintern... but I doubt that this would impact whether Italy joins the war.

Is this normal?

 

[Mebsuta]

In my short experience, German AI will avoid swarming Netherlands, Belgium and France until they have Luxembourg. Which, amazingly, doesn't happen fast at all. It never ceases to amaze how they send a shit ton of troops in front of the Manginot Line and the Netherlands border, yet they send "only the necessary" to Luxembourg.

Also, Germany can easily take Netherlands, France and Belgium without help. Remember that in the Axis you can fire war OR limited war, which won't get your allies into the conflict unless you decide to enact an axis ally Call to Arms. In diplomacy.

What you should look for is Denmark. I already told you why Germany doesn't swarm west ASAP. But they always blitzkrieg Denmark immediatly. If that isn't happening, you have a funny scenario going on.

 

[incognitus]

Denmark is Japanese, has been since '38, I think. I guess the reason might be that I have never joined Axis. Germany probably calls Japan into the war (and all other Axis powers by default) so that the Japanese can keep the British busy in the east. If Japan is not in Axis, they don't bother, because as you rightly pointed out, they don't need Italy to defeat France. Which they might not get a chance to do, because I might conquer France first ^^

 

[marxianTJ]

Nah, Japan usually doesn't get called into the war at all until they initiate it themselves. The Japanese and Germans really don't coordinate at all. IRL the Japanese simultaneously attacked Pearl Harbor and various British/French holdings throughout the Pacific within hours of each other - a sort of blitzkrieg of their own - they weren't at war with anybody prior to that (December 1941), and were in fact negotiating treaties with *most* of the involved nations towards a peaceful solution to their grievances - which is why the attack on Pearl Harbor et al was seen as being so dastardly.

My guess is Germany doesn't feel secure with a strong non-aligned power holding Denmark because the problem is that until you're at war with the UK et al, the Baltic Sea is open to their passage.

You could however just tag as Germany and DoW the Netherlands - Germany is strong enough, regardless of what the AI thinks, to easily defeat BeNeLux and France combined even if it comes as a surprise.

 

[incognitus]

That would speak for a pretty strong strategic AI! I'll give it a shot.

 

[Wraith11B]

So, you're telling us that you went hunting and are wondering why the AI has no idea what to do?

First, the Danzig or War decision initiated a limited war; Germany and her puppet Slovakia are the only ones who are going to be at war. Italy didn't join until France was almost about to fall. Secondly, if you've captured Denmark and Norway, then the script to handle Weserubung is broken and it doesn't have a whole lot of options (recall that DEN and NOR fell during the Sitzkrieg), and with you basically in control of North and South America, Oceania and much of Asia, they're going to fold.

 

[incognitus]

So, you're telling us that you went hunting and are wondering why the AI has no idea what to do?

First, the Danzig or War decision initiated a limited war; Germany and her puppet Slovakia are the only ones who are going to be at war. Italy didn't join until France was almost about to fall. Secondly, if you've captured Denmark and Norway, then the script to handle Weserubung is broken and it doesn't have a whole lot of options (recall that DEN and NOR fell during the Sitzkrieg), and with you basically in control of North and South America, Oceania and much of Asia, they're going to fold.

You mean Germany are going to fold?

 

[marxianTJ]

Yes - Germany sees you as the larger threat so it's just staying put.

 

[incognitus]

Ah, yeah. I never actually checked my threat on Germany. Me personally, I would be more concerned about those countries who have already declared war on me ^^

 

[Kovax]

The "normal" situation is that Germany takes Poland, then sits and waits until spring. At some point it generally decides to take Denmark, then Norway, but the AI won't make a move against France until at least April or May. If Denmark and Norway are held by Japan, but Japan isn't in the Axis, I'm not positive that the AI will know what to do, and might just "park" for the rest of the game, but it will probably play out OK eventually. You'll know in a couple of months, if it does or doesn't attack the low countries, then continue on into France.

Historically, Italy didn't join the war until France was on the verge of surrender, with that infamous expression along the lines of "We only need a few hundred dead to sit at the [negotiating] table as a man who has fought". Hungary didn't get involved until around the start of Barbarossa: something to do with the bombing of a Hungarian train by a lone Soviet-design bomber (which was never conclusively proven to be Soviet, or Germans posing as Soviets), and the Soviets then refusing to even look into the matter on their end. "It's not our fault if someone hates you." Romania entered the war sometime around then as well, I believe, but might be incorrect on that.

 

[incognitus]

Oh, okay. That makes sense. What if I attack France first? Will Germany "pile on" or will they still wait until spring?

 

[marxianTJ]

Romania joined the Axis in late 40' and joined in the war against the USSR at the outset - it was untouched by the Allies until 1943 - and didn't declare war on them until December of 41'.

Bulgaria declared war on the Western Allies (but not the USSR ever) in late 41' too - the funny thing about Bulgaria is that they were the only Axis nation to end WW2 larger than it had been prior to the war - most folks presume that is because the USSR was far easier on Bulgaria than the other Balkan nations due to its never having declared war on them.

Germany *may* cross the Maginot if you make them collapse - but it shouldn't matter, France is pitiful.

Also, declaring war on France would defacto make you a member of the Axis as you would be at war with the Allies until the conclusion of the war. So, if your goal is to conquer the world, you should wait until may-june of 40' and if Germany still hasn't moved, just force them to DoW all the same. They'll easily win.

 

[incognitus]

It would not quite be the same as joining Axis, if I may insist. I have pre-emptively conquered all countries that could potentially join the Allies. This means that there's only France and the UK plus their pitiful Asian and Arab puppets. I should be able to take out France in about a month or two (I have 10 Infantary and 1 armoured (state of the art) corps lined up to invade via the pyrenees), the UK in another few months. If I remember correctly, it only takes conquering Great Britain, the Mediterranean and a few VPs in India. After mopping up the small Allies afterwards, it might be before the end of 1940 that the Allies should no longer exist and I inherit all their territories and lose those ugly stripes... ^^

I know what you mean by "being stuck in a war with the Allies forever" (my paraphrasing, not a quote), but that is why I took out the US first thing, to make the Allies defeatable...

Now, the difference to joining Axis is, that the SU should technically never attack me, right? Or if it does, it will not attack Germany...

 

[Palmerdale]

The AI does do some peculiar things at times. In my current Russia game, I'm into January of 43 with no signs of the Germans attacking to the East. I was hoping to see if I could fight a defensive war and avoid getting pushed around at will. I conquered Finland through the Winter War event, and took all the land seceded in the events. I've not DoWed any one, a passive Russia. It's peculiar, as this is the 7th or 8th time I've restarted this game. I'm hoping this will be a learning opportunity for me, so I'm pushing onward.

 

[marxianTJ]

The issue is that so long as *any* member of the allies exists you will not be able to attack any member of the Axis, ever. Granted it should be doable for you, but I just wanted to make you aware of that fact lol.

For the issue with the USSR palmerdale, Germany won't attack the USSR in 3 cases:

1.) They had some kind of major screw up somewhere (Norway, France, etc) and they're now out of manpower or lost a huge chunk of their army.
2.) They're scared of you. If you have a huge amount of troops on your common border, and the AI doesn't think it can win, it will not attack, ever. A human playing well from 1936 can easily achieve this outcome.
3.) You proposed an unholy alliance and are presently at war with the Allies lol.

 

[incognitus]

The issue is that so long as *any* member of the allies exists you will not be able to attack any member of the Axis, ever. Granted it should be doable for you, but I just wanted to make you aware of that fact lol.

Oh, wow. I didn't know that I cannot attack Axis while I am at war with the Allies. Thank you for that info!

 

[Palmerdale]

The issue is that so long as *any* member of the allies exists you will not be able to attack any member of the Axis, ever. Granted it should be doable for you, but I just wanted to make you aware of that fact lol.

For the issue with the USSR palmerdale, Germany won't attack the USSR in 3 cases:

1.) They had some kind of major screw up somewhere (Norway, France, etc) and they're now out of manpower or lost a huge chunk of their army.
2.) They're scared of you. If you have a huge amount of troops on your common border, and the AI doesn't think it can win, it will not attack, ever. A human playing well from 1936 can easily achieve this outcome.
3.) You proposed an unholy alliance and are presently at war with the Allies lol.

Okay, thanks @marxianTJ. I'm not in any wars, and I don't think Germany has problems with manpower, so I'm assuming that I've garrisoned the border to alarming proportions. Rats. I was trying to build a solid border, but not deter the German aggression. Guess I overdid it a bit.

I've had a lot of issues trying to allow the game to conduct the war in a somewhat historical manner. But every time I get into a defensive war (France, Russia, China), I just end up with units that are out of ORG and simply get pushed around the map. I was hoping to build more sturdy units, with a better deployment scheme so that I could actually hold a line (in the early parts of the war) against the AI aggressor. I think there's got to be a fine line where your units won't get mashed by the AI but not deter the main flow of the war.

Sound like it's time for Russian Try * + 1 for me.

 

[incognitus]

There seems to be no end to the weirdness of this war. Maybe this is normal, maybe you can explain it to me.

So, as you know, I declared war on the UK in early February 1940. The Allies at this point were just France, the UK and their puppets as well as Poland (already occupied). I invaded France from multiple vectors, 4 corps came across the Pyrenees, one armoured corps landed in Marseille and another corps landed in Dunkirk. Simulaneously I landed a few paras in Cornwall and backed them up with another corps once Plymouth was taken. I also invaded Northern Ireland from the south. Another corps took care of Gibraltar and a final one attacked the Suez canal. In Asia I had more trouble, because the only battle fleet I left there was outdated and no match for the Royal Navy. Regardless, I managed to land some troops in Goa and had them occupy Bombay. Later another force took Rangoon and Calcutta. Now it is mid April and I have just defeated the UK (France fell on March 29th).

The weird this is, that this completely ended the war for me. I conquered all UK and French territories, puppetted all their puppets and got a message that I had conquered Poland, but I checked, it actually went to Germany (with whom I still don't have any diplomatic contacts). Now my question is, is this normal? Inheriting the puppets? And had I added war goals to conquer those countries, would I have just received their territories instead or would I have had to conquer them manually?

Oh... Germany has since attacked BeNeLux, who joined the Allies, but did not join my war, of course. So basically I am at peace with the Allies now, who only consist of Belgium and the Netherlands.

 

[marxianTJ]

Things go wacky once you've basically taken over the world lol. I'd watch those puppets carefully because sometimes the game forgets what the hell is going on and your own puppets will randomly declare war on you once things start to really break down. I imagine Poland went the way it did because the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact probably fired regardless of your wargoals (this often happens to Axis players who try to take France over the event based war-goals of Germany).

For Palmerdale, the thing with the USSR is a competent human player on normal can just build a stupendous number of units. So, you either have to lightly garrison the border to fool the AI into thinking it's OK, or focus your IC onto something funny but not strictly necessary, like 100+ air units, or a navy to rival the USN lol. It's entirely possible for example to field 9 late tech BBs + around 36 DDs and still have enough IC wrapped into land units that you win the war by the end of 1941 or mid 1942 depending on how fast you are lol.

 

[incognitus]

It's entirely possible for example to field 9 late tech BBs + around 36 DDs

Since you're mentioning late tech BBs... I remember that ships cannot be upgraded in regards to the main armament, etc. When do they get "fixed" to the tech level you have? When you start building or when they are completed?