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Alwar

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I don't think 1.3 fixed anything regarding that. I'm pretty sure I saw even my lasers attacking missiles just today. Was it normal missiles or swarmers?

Or, this could also mean that the latest changes to missile speeds actually worked into allowing missiles to be viable again. The barrage of missiles reaching first would have allowed the torpedoes to go through and do their serious, shield penetrating damage. A torpedoes only set up would probably not work.
If this requires actual flak cannons in order to properly counter, due to their range advantage, I think it would be a good position of balance regarding rocketry weapons.

However I will keep an eye out and adjust accordingly if I notice such a behavior.
It was both missiles and torpedoes, dude im telling you, not even a shot fired until got up close. I dont know where you got that missiles get shot by other weapons, but i dont see it.

Standard point defense are red lasers, are you sure you are not getting mistaken by that?

Also i want to give you a suggestion regarding AA artillery (the L one). Right now is worse than standard PD not only in effectiveness but also in cost and energy. The upgrade is literally worse than the basic one because it have the same range, accuracy and rate of fire but cost more. it does sightly more damage per shot, something that is useless except agaisnt squadrons but who uses them again? still the dps rivals late game L guns. I suggest either getting it cheaper, longer range or higher rate of fire, otherwise its just plain worse than mounting 4x point defenses.

Maybe the dps is too high and is not balanced? I agree. well i think it should be primarly a point defense weapon, we have plenty damage dealers anyway. Maybe 10-8 dps could do the trick for better PD performance?
 
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AposDio

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It was both missiles and torpedoes, dude im telling you, not even a shot fired until got up close. I dont know where you got that missiles get shot by other weapons, but i dont see it.

Standard point defense are red lasers, are you sure you are not getting mistaken by that?

I wasn't using any point defenses at the time, but it might have been my vassal's ships being cluttered on top of mine. However, the range was quite long as well, much more than what PDs are.

Nevertheless, the latest PD buffs should provide a proper defense against missiles, but I'll try taking a more in-depth look within the files and will start a game with missiles myself.
 
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Alwar

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Hey, im the one from steam. i will post here if you dont mind some suggestions it might improve the mod.

Antimatter missiles and up have still the old range in medium and large, maybe in small mounts too.

Large PD guns (flak i think its called) is worse at point defense than the small ones while also being much more expensive. The upgrade is even worse because it doesnt modify accuracy, attack speed or range, just damage but it adds even more cost to energy / minerals. They are just bad for countering missiles and only good vs fighters

25 range to fighters is still too low. Maybe 50-60 range could fix it, right now cruisers and battleships just hang in the back and do nothing. Upping the COMBAT speed of both could help too?

10 range in large autocannon makes them useless if mounted in anything but destroyers due to the former point. Maybe upping them to 5-10-20 could do the trick for small-medium-large? Also, energy costs makes them really bad performance/cost wise. its just not worth use them right now vs lasers or railguns. Maybe add some quirck like low dps but extra shield damage for shield saturation and low armor penetration? dunno

Evasion changes fixed a lot of problems, but i think it was too much. right now early game combat is very rigged. I think 10-15-20-25 evasion for tier I-II-III-IV could be better because it doesnt touch early game balance much and fixes late game too much evasion.

Plasma guns are really good but maybe have too much range compared to autocannons. Maybe give it the same range to autocannons that i suggested before? 5-10-20 could do the trick too.

Overall i like this mod the most of all the weapon balance ones. i think it has a lot of potential

Cheers
 

AposDio

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Feedback here is much easier to follow and is not limited by word counts here, so that's fine.

Regarding some of the points:

I've noticed battleships being stuck far behind and am working on fixing it as we speak. Evasion I agree that it went a bit on the low-end, so I will give a small amount back.

Autocannon range is a weird one, because they also work extremely well for magnetic fortresses. I think they are ok-ish, but not in their sweet spot yet.

Plasma guns I do feel that they are on a good place. I wouldn't compare them to autocannons or have them have similar range.

Mind you I do have plans to introduce more alternatives to the weapon trees so that they do indeed have some more alternatives. Coupled with some more complex and advanced techs tied to them. So instead of having autocannons penetrate shields by default, I'm aiming towards making it able to acquire autocannons that do that through techs and/or possible events.
 

Alwar

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Well i agree with mostly you said, except for autocannons. They might be good for fortress but so they are plasma cannons. They should be useful for normal fleet combat too. If that means tweaking them, ok for me.

Not that stations are good anyway, they usually are a minor annoyance and very costly to build and maintain. Autocannons right now are useless imo. they do not act as PD as you previously said (i tested them several times), they have horrible range and horrible accuracy offset by the high rate of fire. But before the fleets engage any other weapon system will deliver more damage (and also killing blows so the returning fire will be even lower) that autocannons will once the fleets engage, because the damage difference is not that huge. They also cost like a railgun or laser in both energy and minerals. I sincerely think something needs to be done with them, either in costs, damage or range.

I suggest to up the range a bit to be usable like 10-15-20, lower the energy consumption, buff the accuracy and lower the damage per second, while maintaining the rate of fire. They could act as a good low range option for small ships that engage close and personal other small ships and they could act as a defense weapon for big ships unable to hit small ships with the other guns.

Maybe lower the lasers and railguns 10% the accuracy to fit in the autocannons? so standard guns get 80% hitchance and autocannons 90%. then lose 2,5% for each size. it ends at 80-77,5-75 for standard guns and 90-87,5-85 for autocannons.

The problem also is that hit chance is hard capped at 100%, so right now with the new marksman computer you added and the other configurations, hit chance is capped easily. Maybe that is what makes you think autocannons are really good, every gun ends with 100% hit rate with one or two upgrades. That could be the reason AI loves plasma guns so much too.

Navigators guild bonus (10%) + computer bonus (10/20%) + fleet academy (5%)+ tachyon sensor (+10%) means that you get 35-45+ (!) bonus of hit chance. I think that is a major point to touch next.You could add 2% for navigators, 2% for academy, 5% for tachyon (1/3/5), 3/6 for computer and you could end with 15% max of increase hit chance. a Large standard weapon end with 90% hit chance. Extra big guns like kinetic batteries or lances could be 80% accuracy, so they are good as a long range gun but can miss, even with all the bonuses.

Now if we do the calculations, the autocannon dps could be set to 15% less than standard guns, but the extra 10% accuracy is a world of difference in the additive game of evasion. It could end at 20% more effective damage vs evasive ships but lower damage vs non evasive ships (they dont evade, then the lower dps show up). Corvettes now dont hit 91% evasion anymore, but maybe they can hit ~50% (50% currently, 57% if you set thrusters like i suggested to 10-15-20-25). Lets say a corvette hit 50% evasion vs full upgraded ship wth sensors, computers and autocannons, you are hitting 50-47,5-45% of the times. With a railgun you are hitting 40-37.5-35% of the times. That is a huge enough difference to set a spot for those guns but not enough to break the game.

If you dont want autocannons to be anti small ship guns, you could also change the large mount to do more dps, like a lance or kinetic artillery and set it to 10-15-15 range. Large mount gets same range of medium mount, but instead being designed for shooting small craft, it gets lower accuracy and a buff to damage and rips big ships apart.

The ships stuck might be about the bug of formations. there is some huge issue with formations and range, it seems the formation range overwrites weapon range. There is a mod, rangefinders or something like that it the workshop that fixes that somewhat by forcing a set range that the ship will try to maintain. That could be a temporary fix.

There is also another problem, there is a modifier to combat speed set for each class and maybe the big ship ones is too restrictive.
 
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biship

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Love the mod and appreciate all the effort.

Three things.
  • If you rename your files, they will not conflict with other mods. ie 00_utilities_drives.txt can just be <modname>_utilities_drives.txt
  • These renamed files should only contain your changes (so other mods can change other parts of the files). tip: you need to still deliver all other parts within the {}'s
  • Why do you include full unedited original games files? This just gets in the way of other mods. ie 00_utilities_drives.txt
 

AposDio

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Love the mod and appreciate all the effort.

Three things.
  • If you rename your files, they will not conflict with other mods. ie 00_utilities_drives.txt can just be <modname>_utilities_drives.txt
  • These renamed files should only contain your changes (so other mods can change other parts of the files). tip: you need to still deliver all other parts within the {}'s
  • Why do you include full unedited original games files? This just gets in the way of other mods. ie 00_utilities_drives.txt

A full TL;DR to those points would be that I'm fairly new to modding, albeit trying to be hark working. I'll have them in mind for the next release, however it will most likely be a gradual transition.
 
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Gamesguy

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A full TL;DR to those points would be that I'm fairly new to modding, albeit trying to be hark working. I'll have them in mind for the next release, however it will most likely be a gradual transition.
I just tested it, his method doesn't work.

The only file where you can do this is the defines file. Other files require you to use the same name as the default system file or the game just ignores it.
 

AposDio

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I just tested it, his method doesn't work.

The only file where you can do this is the defines file. Other files require you to use the same name as the default system file or the game just ignores it.

I did it as well, it wreckt a save game when I played with the space modules file. It was fun seeing spaceports with no weapons though. If you want to edit something from the vanilla game, it seems you have to use the default file.

It does, however, work for new additions and I will be using it for that in many cases. With some exceptions like computer roles, because if you add them to a different file, the lines are always placed at the end and end up appearing after all the other computers and it messes up the order and progression feeling. Having basic computers after sentient computers just feels weird.
 

biship

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Yes sorry, the file name needs to start with 00 (and be in the proper folder).

ie, I have this file \Paradox Interactive\Stellaris\mod\mymod\common\component_templates\00_mymod.txt

Code:
@ftl3 = 20
@ftl4 = 40

@power3 = -20
@power4 = -40

#############
# UTILITIES #
#############

### WARP DRIVES
utility_component_template = {
    key = "WARP_DRIVE_3"
    size = small
    icon = "GFX_ship_part_warp_drive_3"
    icon_frame = 1
    power = @power3
    cost = @ftl3
    ftl = warp
    ship_modifier = {
        ship_ftl_warp_range_mult = 1.0
        ship_interstellar_speed_mult = 0.6
        ship_windup_mult = -0.3
    }
   
    ai_weight = {
        weight = 3
    }

    class_restriction = { shipclass_military shipclass_constructor shipclass_colonizer shipclass_science_ship shipclass_transport }
    prerequisites = { "tech_warp_drive_3" }
    component_set = "ftl_components"
}

utility_component_template = {
    key = "WARP_DRIVE_4"
    size = small
    icon = "GFX_ship_part_warp_drive_4"
    icon_frame = 1
    power = @power4
    cost = @ftl4
    ftl = warp
    ship_modifier = {
        ship_ftl_warp_range_mult = 1.1
        ship_interstellar_speed_mult = 0.7
        ship_windup_mult = -0.4
    }
   
    ai_weight = {
        weight = 4
    }

    class_restriction = { shipclass_military shipclass_constructor shipclass_colonizer shipclass_science_ship shipclass_transport }
    prerequisites = { "tech_warp_drive_4" }
    component_set = "ftl_components"
}

and it works absolutely fine. Warp drives 1-2 are not touched. Warp drive 3 is modified and 4 is new.
This means I can use another mod that modifies warp drives (and my mod will also overwrite warp drive 3 & 4).

There are still 2 issues with mod sequencing tho:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?posts/21244414/
 

AposDio

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Update 1.2 is up, more details on the main post.

Tweaking the files still didn't work and was quite infuriating at some points, however it shouldn't matter much, since I already edit most of the parts. The only file that might suffer is 00_spaceport_modules, however the mod is fully compatible with "More Spaceport Modules", which is the only related mod in my knowledge up to now. I will keep on trying to tweak this, however it won't be a high priority as long as there's no mods that conflict to begin with and those who do would conflict either way. It pushed me back more than I'd have liked.

I did do a clean up of files not used (yet) though.
 
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Chrysaetos

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Can't say I like that Wormhole change especially since it'll hinder their fleets particularly hard early on. Surely a better solution would be to alter the stations?
 

AposDio

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Can't say I like that Wormhole change especially since it'll hinder their fleets particularly hard early on. Surely a better solution would be to alter the stations?

I'm still speculating on how to touch the stations in order to balance out the costs and will do it, however I do find it unfair that wormhole ships get to have 15 power more available to them. This is 1 more small shield module (125 shield hp+3.6 regen for Hyper shields for free) and it's not like wormholes are weak, quite the contrary, even their starting range is currently huge.
 

Chrysaetos

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Here's the gist of why the Wormhole modulator change is pretty bad:

Basic Hyperdrive Corvette vs Basic Wormhole Corvette

So in the very early game, the Wormhole Empire will pay 10 more minerals or an overall 13% more minerals for 25 less Shield HP or a 7% reduction in total HP (Hull + Shield).

For this he also gets to have his fleet mobility dependent on Stations, have his fleet be less flexible and range restricted (by the station). Sure, he gains the benefits of long-leaps but catching enemy fleets with Wormholes is already a chore.

By the mid-game point, with Cruisers this is mostly sorted out but this is the case in the base game as well.

Hyperdrive Cruiser vs Wormhole Cruiser

The difference here becomes just 75 Shields vs 3 Armor, which is a 3% damage reduction against Hull IIRC. 3% of 1200 is 36.

So we're trading 75 Effective Hull Points (EHP) given by the extra shield for 36 EHP given by the armor with the Wormhole paying 1 extra mineral for 39 less EHP.

By the lategame, the point is entirely moot but at the same time, Wormholes becomes pretty bad in the late-game since the spool-up time takes forever making it near impossible to catch enemy fleets. I would highly recommend reverting this change and finding a better way to balance out the FTLs, probably with higher costs for the Wormhole Stations.
 

AposDio

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Here's the gist of why the Wormhole modulator change is pretty bad:

Basic Hyperdrive Corvette vs Basic Wormhole Corvette

So in the very early game, the Wormhole Empire will pay 10 more minerals or an overall 13% more minerals for 25 less Shield HP or a 7% reduction in total HP (Hull + Shield).

For this he also gets to have his fleet mobility dependent on Stations, have his fleet be less flexible and range restricted (by the station). Sure, he gains the benefits of long-leaps but catching enemy fleets with Wormholes is already a chore.

By the mid-game point, with Cruisers this is mostly sorted out but this is the case in the base game as well.

Hyperdrive Cruiser vs Wormhole Cruiser

The difference here becomes just 75 Shields vs 3 Armor, which is a 3% damage reduction against Hull IIRC. 3% of 1200 is 36.

So we're trading 75 Effective Hull Points (EHP) given by the extra shield for 36 EHP given by the armor with the Wormhole paying 1 extra mineral for 39 less EHP.

By the lategame, the point is entirely moot but at the same time, Wormholes becomes pretty bad in the late-game since the spool-up time takes forever making it near impossible to catch enemy fleets. I would highly recommend reverting this change and finding a better way to balance out the FTLs, probably with higher costs for the Wormhole Stations.

The issue with wormholes goes both ways, it is also a chore chasing fleets that use wormholes. That's an issue with how wormholes work in general, not with the costs. It's just on a whole different scale than warp and hyperdrives.

Late game wormholes cover such a huge area that the ships can pretty much attack anything they wish from fairly easily defended stations. Wormholes also have it easier to bring reinforcements that you just built, so that has to be taken into account as well.

And yes, early game they will have to pay more, but wormholes are also much harder to get spaced in and have it impossible to expand. That's a huge advantage for the early game, especially in spiral galaxies. Something has to give.
 

Alwar

Second Lieutenant
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May 6, 2011
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Wormholes are fine. Im using the FTL rebalance mod and it fixes everything. Hyperlanes are extremely fast, warp are faster and have really free movement and wormholes are a mix.

Im also using a mod for jumpdrives for every FTL so in lategame its also balanced.

With what you gave to wormholes you basically killed wormhole users.