We need to stop this "All or Nothing" War

[orochi2k]

HOI4 is the only game among CK2,EU4 and Stellaris that nations need to fight till one side complete lose the war.
And after that, the peace conference concludes the lose side completed lose everything.

Why it is broken?
1, China must completely conquer Japan to win the war and possibly just take all states.
2, South Africa must invade Portuguese in Europe to take those 2 nearby provinces in Africa. But, why take only provinces while you can completely annex them?
3, AI German never be able to win as they cannot invade Britain island. They cannot get into Canada or US either...Thus, Allies always never loses!
4, Empire of Kiwi and Empire of Kangaroo almost never get touched. (In history, they are supposed to be threaten by potential Japanese invasion. )
5, Whoever fight Soviet, either got beaten or end up take entire Russia.

Possibly we need a "What if real world run based on HOI4 rule" thread.

 

[Broletariat90]

Honestly they will say that if you wanted realism you should go play some other game. They have dismissed complaints like this before by pretty much telling the customer to screw off.

 

[saturn7]

Also because of this, war goals are almost irrelevant.

 

[PogoMarimo]

I agree entirely. I think the game shouldn't assume immediately that war needs to end entirely by annexation, with China/Japan being the biggest culprit. However, I think France capitulating a separate peace is a reasonable alternate history, as well as Italy capitulating but remaining independent. It doesn't make much sense from a simulation perspective to force total annexation and honestly it feels more like a development resource cop-out to just brush the issue aside entirely.

 

[ricane]

I agree, it would be nice if the devs could respond to this.

 

[Yozul]

Seriously. I'm currently playing a game as France where I did the Little Entente thing, and have completely conquered every German provice, and I'm just about to finish every Italian province outside the Ethiopia area. Now Poland has been invaded by the USSR. Why do I have to conquer the Japanese home islands to end first war? Why do they care what happens to Germany and Italy? If anything they should want to invade the Soviets while they're distracted fighting me in Europe.

 

[elfiwolfe]

You can go into diplomacy to end a war early, if you met the requirements

 

[Shadow86]

This is a tricky issue, since WW2 was a total war and it only ended when the defeated were absolutely in ruins.

• Germany never could invade Great Britain, but that didn't mean the UK could've ended the war on their side on those grounds.
• Germany would've had to take Moscow and everything west of it to defeat the Soviet Union, and we don't know if the war would've just ended then. It might've devolved to lower scale guerrilla warfare lasting many more years.
• China won against Japan because someone else crippled the latter. Without the Americans fighting the Japanese, who knows how much longer the war in China could've lasted.

I mean, the game isn't geared towards small wars, and especially if one of the combatants is in a major alliance, there's no reason why a country with that kind of backing would ever give up and concede any territory.

I suppose there could be an option for an armistice if a war has gone on long enough (let's say about a year) and neither side has made significant gains in that period. Something that could've happened if Germany had won the war in Europe and blocked off the US from landing on the continent. Not quite a white peace since each side would keep everything they took from the other.

 

[Nidhoegger]

Wel, if we get a cold war dlc, as everybody is assuming, there needs to be someone around against whom to wage a cold war. Right now, there is nobody left...

 

[orochi2k]

This is a tricky issue, since WW2 was a total war and it only ended when the defeated were absolutely in ruins.

• Germany never could invade Great Britain, but that didn't mean the UK could've ended the war on their side on those grounds.
• Germany would've had to take Moscow and everything west of it to defeat the Soviet Union, and we don't know if the war would've just ended then. It might've devolved to lower scale guerrilla warfare lasting many more years.
• China won against Japan because someone else crippled the latter. Without the Americans fighting the Japanese, who knows how much longer the war in China could've lasted.

I mean, the game isn't geared towards small wars, and especially if one of the combatants is in a major alliance, there's no reason why a country with that kind of backing would ever give up and concede any territory.

I suppose there could be an option for an armistice if a war has gone on long enough (let's say about a year) and neither side has made significant gains in that period. Something that could've happened if Germany had won the war in Europe and blocked off the US from landing on the continent. Not quite a white peace since each side would keep everything they took from the other.

I like the German-US cold war events in previous HOI game.
It's really frustrating that Allies never admit they lost even when there are just Canada and US as major still fighting and Axis never be able to invade North America.

 

[saturn7]

In my last game, the allies did not surrender because of Australia! For some reasons it became a major country.

 

[EndlessTest]

Yep, I also agree with this ... they need to rework the whole war goals/wars/peace conferences. There should be a way to end the war without having to conquer the whole planet ...

I was playing as Romania and after beating germany with the help of the allies I ended up at war with the soviet union ... we won and I took all of the frkn russia because why not! This should not be possible (this is one of the many things that should not be possible)

 

[Anichent]

They have dismissed complaints like this before by pretty much telling the customer to screw off.

I have seen a few...less than professional responses from devs.

In the end, I have seen the developers dismiss a lot of very valid criticism so I am resigned to just mod in the improvements and/or fixes and/or changes I want. If people can figure out how to mod it in and make it work
a) it gives us all something to work with and play with
b) it shows the devs how things could work and maybe they steal some ideas from good mods?

HOI4 is more like Risk than it is like EU4. People who wanted the freedom of other PDX games in HOI were bound to be disappointed. But I think the devs knew what they planned would not match the varying wishes of a lot of fans which is why they purposely tried to make this game so moddable.

Achievement are meaningless and overrated. Just mod the game you want it to be.

 

[mabus81]

This is a game about the Second World War. I don't want to spent countless hours gearing up my forces, organizing my land, air and naval forces so that in the end, I can push a few buttons in the peace conference screen and "win". To my mind, there is absolutely nothing broken with the terms under which a peace conference can take place in the game.

 

[Anichent]

This is a game about the Second World War. I don't want to spent countless hours gearing up my forces, organizing my land, air and naval forces so that in the end, I can push a few buttons in the peace conference screen and "win". To my mind, there is absolutely nothing broken with the terms under which a peace conference can take place in the game.

Thats because your mind doesn't comprehend the sheer possibilities of how player choice can change how WW2 happens in HOI4

 

[NavalPorcupine]

HOI4 is the only game among CK2,EU4 and Stellaris that nations need to fight till one side complete lose the war.
And after that, the peace conference concludes the lose side completed lose everything.

Why it is broken?
1, China must completely conquer Japan to win the war and possibly just take all states.
2, South Africa must invade Portuguese in Europe to take those 2 nearby provinces in Africa. But, why take only provinces while you can completely annex them?
3, AI German never be able to win as they cannot invade Britain island. They cannot get into Canada or US either...Thus, Allies always never loses!
4, Empire of Kiwi and Empire of Kangaroo almost never get touched. (In history, they are supposed to be threaten by potential Japanese invasion. )
5, Whoever fight Soviet, either got beaten or end up take entire Russia.

Possibly we need a "What if real world run based on HOI4 rule" thread.

I've taken Britain and the USSR so it's not impossible. However I think that Canada and British Raj should surrender or sue for peace when the major nation in the faction is defeated as there's no way that Canada could defeat Germany, so why bother fighting? Something that does annoy me is that you can't make peace (as mentioned by you). In the winter war, neither Finland or the USSR surrendered, they made a peace treaty. We need some sort of treaty system.

 

[Meglok]

Right now there is not much difference between historical and ahistorical. Either we need triggers that prevent Japan from answering a call to war from Germany or they are not working. Same with a lot of other nations that join alliances they shouldn't and and expand the war way too fast for historical play. China should have the option of enforcing a White Peace with Japan. Japan and Russia should have the option of a White Peace in the East. And NAPs shouldn't be overrode by alliance calls.

All of these should be moddable by either static modifers or events except for maybe the NAP issue.

 

[CharlieFox]

While not all wars should be total war (particularly wars between minors or between a minor and a major) I feel that at least the World War II should last until all major participants have capitulated.
Imagine how frustrating would be if you play as the USA, spend all game building up for war, only to have the UK to agree to a white peace with Germany before you can liberate Europe...

However I would be Ok with being able to negotiate peace if all Enemy majors have capitulated.

 

[Patgarret77]

Yes this is a issue but people have to understand this is HOI not EU... the mechanic of preparation for the war followed by an all out super world wide war is what is game is all about. Germany cannot win without annexing uk? Guess what, that was also hitler's issue! And that's why Axis usually loses in the end.
I cannot wait to play as Germany and carpet bomb uk with complete air superiority...then we see if the island is really impregnable!
And guess what, maybe, instead of addressing Russia, go for uk...

 

[Meteor]

The possibility of a peace conference between Soviet Union and Germany in 1942 ist not totally SiFi.
So I would like the option, that war endings without total defeat is possible.