This is becoming a very serious problem for me with several nations i am dealing with. VERY serious in that i cannot script RR that will work with both.
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I use beta ... so I say beta!
Besides the AGCEEP is still in beta too, so we might as well aim for the next patch.
Besides the AGCEEP is still in beta too, so we might as well aim for the next patch.
I have said this before, and I'll repeat it again: If the AGCEEP wants to become a good mod for multiplayer, it is inevitable to adapt it to the beta patches, since the beta patches are an absolute must and standard in multiplayer games. The objections raised by several people are absolutely understandable, but I think it's obvious that there needs to be a definite decision. Trying to go double-way will in the end hurt the mod.
However, this is not only a choice between beta and 1.07, but between multiplayer compatibility and no multiplayer compatibility, and faced with that alternative, I'd go for MP.
Besides, also remember that 1.07 still has the awful skull bug that causes ctds in country-switching sequences. If we want to implement (or, in the case of the Saxon Partition of Leipzig sequence, keep) these, we have to use the beta patches.
However, this is not only a choice between beta and 1.07, but between multiplayer compatibility and no multiplayer compatibility, and faced with that alternative, I'd go for MP.
Besides, also remember that 1.07 still has the awful skull bug that causes ctds in country-switching sequences. If we want to implement (or, in the case of the Saxon Partition of Leipzig sequence, keep) these, we have to use the beta patches.
I also think developing for the beta is the best option. I expect that most of the features in the beta (after perhaps a little more tuning) will make it into the official 1.08 release, in the not too distant future.
Beta, hands down. Good thread Jinnai. I feel the same way about the events and ideas. My own plans and indeed, mods I've been testing for hours now, require beta, and even the beta still has some bugs with the more complex events commands and situations. For example, ideally, no one should have to save purposefully after a country tag switch, and reload to play their game. Most are used to it, so probably don't mind, but still, ideally, that shouldn't be necessary.
As for MP, I liked the motion for a non MP 1419 scenario, and a 16th century MP.
A solid vote for beta.
As for MP, I liked the motion for a non MP 1419 scenario, and a 16th century MP.
A solid vote for beta.
Beta, no doubt about it. I'm not sure if 1419 is the best start for an MP game, but I'm willing to make adjustments to support it once SP is stable.
I've softened my line on this one a bit. A bit 
I'd really like to get a decent idea of what is likely to stay when we actually get an official release. Beta tests represent a moving target, and it is simply not possible for the mod to keep up with all the changes when a new beta test comes out every month or two. If it were up to me (good thing it ain't!) I'd say
-The mod MUST remain compatible with the official release. A mod that requires users to run a beta test just to be able to get the game to function is bound to be offputting. This is not to say that it must be optimized for the official game, just that it should work. I'd also make the beta opt-in so that people who don't click any buttons or run any configs will get the official version. Anyone who has downloaded the beta can be expected to deal with getting the right settings, maybe not a newbie.
-Any use of beta features should be limited to features that we can be reasonably sure will remain when/if we finally get a 1.08. Which means things that are stable in the sequence of beta test versions. So, for example, by all means we should optimize for the new revolt system (which I don't like and keeps me playing the official game most of the time), but I don't think any effort should be put into making it work with the dynamic COT system, because I think that is likely to be changed.
That said, if we're going to make the decision to work primarily with the beta I think a top priority ought to be getting the Dutch (and other) revolts to work better, and avoiding the way the Timurids can be crippled by not being able to raise any troops at all in their revolt events.
I'd really like to get a decent idea of what is likely to stay when we actually get an official release. Beta tests represent a moving target, and it is simply not possible for the mod to keep up with all the changes when a new beta test comes out every month or two. If it were up to me (good thing it ain't!) I'd say
-The mod MUST remain compatible with the official release. A mod that requires users to run a beta test just to be able to get the game to function is bound to be offputting. This is not to say that it must be optimized for the official game, just that it should work. I'd also make the beta opt-in so that people who don't click any buttons or run any configs will get the official version. Anyone who has downloaded the beta can be expected to deal with getting the right settings, maybe not a newbie.
-Any use of beta features should be limited to features that we can be reasonably sure will remain when/if we finally get a 1.08. Which means things that are stable in the sequence of beta test versions. So, for example, by all means we should optimize for the new revolt system (which I don't like and keeps me playing the official game most of the time
), but I don't think any effort should be put into making it work with the dynamic COT system, because I think that is likely to be changed. That said, if we're going to make the decision to work primarily with the beta I think a top priority ought to be getting the Dutch (and other) revolts to work better, and avoiding the way the Timurids can be crippled by not being able to raise any troops at all in their revolt events.
BETA patches definitely, this is what people are using in MP, and is what the majority of people are playing with in SP.
We need to at least be compatible with the betas that allow REMOVECOT and the changed RevoltRisk to help with Event scripting.
LAte,
Jester
We need to at least be compatible with the betas that allow REMOVECOT and the changed RevoltRisk to help with Event scripting.
LAte,
Jester
Jester said:
As always, I question whether anyone knows whether that second point is true.
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For what it's worth the mac lurker (me) wants it to work with the official version (that is if you ever get it bugfree enough for the pedantic mac parser to accept your files AGC was, EEP wasn't...). We don't get beta patches.
I'd imagine mac people make up a very miniscule part of the people interested in this mod though... The decision is yours
AGC was, EEP wasn't...). We don't get beta patches.I'd imagine mac people make up a very miniscule part of the people interested in this mod though... The decision is yours
In light of recent remarks, I pose the questions:
just how much more work is it going to be to make this project official patch and beta patch compatible for future additions?
And who will be doing most of the work?
If it is going to be alot of work, I would want to know if the person(s) responsible are willing to take on that work! If not, then I think if we are going to make a commitment, then we must commit to beta, with hope that a 1.08 will be following closely sometime this year.
just how much more work is it going to be to make this project official patch and beta patch compatible for future additions?
And who will be doing most of the work?
If it is going to be alot of work, I would want to know if the person(s) responsible are willing to take on that work! If not, then I think if we are going to make a commitment, then we must commit to beta, with hope that a 1.08 will be following closely sometime this year.
Hey, that's my favourite concern!!ribbon22 said:
It all depends. Making two different versions to take care of the new commands isn't too much work, few events are affected.
The main thing IIRC, will be tuning RR as to fit both systems, but different degrees of commitment can be chosen, depending on how important the revolts are. Dutch revolts, and other revolts to create states, ar the important ones, and need different versions. Some work. But if we assume this beta RR change will be included in 1.08 (and I'm pretty sure it will), all the work to set beta RR will have to be done sooner or later anyway, so starting before 1.08 won't be unnecessary work for something that will just be temporary. All the not_so_important RR changes can be done much later, after 1.08 if we really don't want to do it now.
if it gets down to lack of committment to make it compatible for both versions (let's face it, we would be duplicating our efforts to get the correct RR for the game and thats not very interesting work), i'd say we go for beta. while it is questionable whether the majority of all SP'ers use the beta, i'd be pretty sure that anyone who bothered to come to the website and looked through most of the forums here to download our mod would have also downloaded the beta.
however, we could pretty easily let the player choose in a configurator whether they want beta compatible or 1.07 compatible. And since Jinnai has been working on it already, i wouldn't think it is too difficult to get the right RR's for both versions for at least the major revolts, correct?? if yes, of course go for both. if no, then go for beta.
however, we could pretty easily let the player choose in a configurator whether they want beta compatible or 1.07 compatible. And since Jinnai has been working on it already, i wouldn't think it is too difficult to get the right RR's for both versions for at least the major revolts, correct?? if yes, of course go for both. if no, then go for beta.
Sun_Zi_36 said:
I agree with this. It really, really needs to work with the official version, but for changes that are almost certainly going to stay if and when we have 1.08 we may as well optimize for the beta. The RR changes certainly fall into this category, although I don't know how much else does. But I still think the default configuration should be the official release - anyone who has downloaded the beta knows about it and should be able to clivk th button to switch configs.