We need some power projection in the future

[Olve]

I know this is something more suitable for a Cold War DLC (knock on wood, cross my fingers), but it is also something I have been missing for all HoI titles (and Vicky).

And it is the importance of using your military strategically during peace time, in HoI it has never been of any value of where your strategic assets where located. It does not matter if the whole Royal Navy is located in Scapa Flow, Malta or Hong Kong, it wont affect the decisions of Germany, Italy or Japan if they would attack the UK or not.

My wish is that every single military unit would have a strategic value and a strategic range applied to them. In the example with the United Kingdom that used the Royal Navy as a "Fleet in being" all around the world in order to maintain its colonial empire, it had fleets of different placed all around the world in order to make sure they could defend the area and deter any hostilities.
If the UK would place the whole Royal Navy in Malta, I think that the Italians would think twice before going into WW2, same with Hong Kong/Singapore against Japan.
But you would be risking hostilities in ares where you did not project power.

Power projection would affect the AI's behavior and trigger different modifiers, and it could also give you the possibility of various diplomatic actions.
A super power that do not project power in its area of control will start loosing control of these areas, such as India or African colonies.

In the beginning of the game the battleships would be power projecting monsters but later air force, carriers and nukes would play a bigger part.
Armies would also project power but with a much shorter range.

And projecting to much power could also be a problem.
If Germany in 1936 would deploy 4 million men at the Polish border, it would not go unnoticed and it could push them towards and early alliance with the UK.
Or Finland might cave in to the demands from the Soviet Union if they can project enough power in Karelia in 1939.

I know this would need a lot of balancing but it would make the peacetime part of the game be much more demanding and it would also open up for a cold war scenario where you could have arms races and terror balance and it would still work in HoI.

I want it to matter that I place nukes in Cuba and it would have consequences to the global situation.

 

[griffor]

it is a interesting idea but i don't think we will get it in base game future dlc maybe

 

[Phi]

My wish is that every single military unit would have a strategic value and a strategic range applied to them. In the example with the United Kingdom that used the Royal Navy as a "Fleet in being" all around the world in order to maintain its colonial empire, it had fleets of different placed all around the world in order to make sure they could defend the area and deter any hostilities.
If the UK would place the whole Royal Navy in Malta, I think that the Italians would think twice before going into WW2, same with Hong Kong/Singapore against Japan.
But you would be risking hostilities in ares where you did not project power.

Dipende ... Maybe my Italy will think twice about joining the Axis then. Or maybe this will make my fleet of naval bombers very happy. Such a system would be hard to adjust, I guess.

 

[dav77-b]

Cold war sounds boring.
A hot war between and eats and west sounds interesting

 

[Olve]

Dipende ... Maybe my Italy will think twice about joining the Axis then. Or maybe this will make my fleet of naval bombers very happy. Such a system would be hard to adjust, I guess.

Yes it would be a great deal of coding and balancing that would have to be done, and if not done well enough it would be an very easy exploit for the player.
The Swiss alpine troops would for example not be very afraid of the Italian Navy's might with its 25 battleships (1948) in the Mediterranean but the nation of Greece would tremble.
Things like invasion capabilities would have to be considered, Italian navy would not project power over countries like Switzerland, Austria and Germany, would have a moderate effect on France, Yugoslavia and a huge effect on UK, Greece, Spain and Turkey.
Armies would have greater power projection on countries with long borders in common and air force would be even for all.
A nations power projection should be divided up into land-power, air-power and naval-power and eventually nuclear-power.

And in order to make it harder to abuse, power projection would build up during a couple of months after a fleet/army arrives in an area.

It is not an easy task to simulate, but not impossible and in the real world this was a very important strategic issue and decided how many countries acted in the end.
It would force me as the US to station troops in Germany and nukes in Turkey to keep the Soviet Union calm, if I would just leave Europe after WW2 there would be a huge risk of a Soviet Invasion.

Ever since 2002 I have wished for a cold war simulator 1945-2000 from Paradox and I wonder why it has not happened yet, they have covered almost all other history, I hope they will make a try with the HoI 4 as a base for it.
But frankly I think a stand alone game would be better in order to incorporate deeper politics and economics, and the most important thing of all, a spherical map (a must in US/USSR conflict)

 

[Axe99]

I really like the general thrust of where you're going with this Olve - it gives a plausible reason for wanting (and building) battleships early in the game, and would add depth to peacetime play mechanics and the 1936 until whenever things go hot build-up. Nice work .

One random thought - one way of engaging the player with this, is if, say, the UK has the entire RN stationed in the Med, and Italy's navy is substantially smaller, there's a national unity or political power (or both) hit for going to war - thus encouraging the Italian player to build the Littorios so that it's got the naval force so that it's people won't think Mussolini's gone bonkers for declaring war. Just a thought, brainstorming and the like, could be rubbish, but trying to think of a way it could be a gameplay mechanic that works for both the AI and player.

Another random thought - something like this could be a good reason for the US to station its fleet at Pearl Harbour - have it set up that doing this projects power in Japan's direction, giving them a greater penalty for going to war until their navy is sufficiently strong? Again, just brainstorming.

 

[incarnate]

Actually that will be in the base game in a way. They added it to diplomacy. If you have a lot of troops at a border you project your power and the neighbour is more inclined to trade with you because of it. It is not everything you ask for but it is a start I think.

 

[Axe99]

Actually that will be in the base game in a way. They added it to diplomacy. If you have a lot of troops at a border you project your power and the neighbour is more inclined to trade with you because of it. It is not everything you ask for but it is a start I think.

This is a good point - and perhaps promising for mods at the very least, as the game will be measuring the 'strength' of the armed forces nearby, so it might be able to be used to trigger events, or as diplomatic modifiers, or the like.

 

[Victor Cortez]

Actually that will be in the base game in a way. They added it to diplomacy. If you have a lot of troops at a border you project your power and the neighbour is more inclined to trade with you because of it. It is not everything you ask for but it is a start I think.

That's what I was thinking.
It's partially there already with trade mechanics, maybe it could be expanded upon from there.
And to start gradually and not break the game, maybe only minors or regional powers should be affected.

 

[Olve]

I really like the general thrust of where you're going with this Olve - it gives a plausible reason for wanting (and building) battleships early in the game, and would add depth to peacetime play mechanics and the 1936 until whenever things go hot build-up. Nice work .

One random thought - one way of engaging the player with this, is if, say, the UK has the entire RN stationed in the Med, and Italy's navy is substantially smaller, there's a national unity or political power (or both) hit for going to war - thus encouraging the Italian player to build the Littorios so that it's got the naval force so that it's people won't think Mussolini's gone bonkers for declaring war. Just a thought, brainstorming and the like, could be rubbish, but trying to think of a way it could be a gameplay mechanic that works for both the AI and player.

Another random thought - something like this could be a good reason for the US to station its fleet at Pearl Harbour - have it set up that doing this projects power in Japan's direction, giving them a greater penalty for going to war until their navy is sufficiently strong? Again, just brainstorming.

My thought as well, going suicidal should be costly, but there could also be some buffs for certain nations to go against the tide.
Usually when I do a US campaign, I station 100% of the US Navy at Guam together with a sizable army, when the attack from Japan comes the Pacific campaign is usually over in 6 weeks after a blitz invasion of the Japanese islands.
Such a huge military build up on Guam could also be very provoking for Japan and they would have put even more effort into crushing the US Navy located at their doorstep, like a Pearl Harbor on speed.

But also in a post WW2 situation the US base at Okinawa will have a large impact on Soviet ambitions in the area, the opportunity to shape the world during peacetime opens up for very diverse game play and outcomes.
They have taken a big step towards this with the national focus tree that will take you down different paths but it could be even more dynamic.

Of course there has to be much balancing to be done so we do not have raving AI lunatics like Mongolia trying to conquer all its way to Luxemburg or coward Nazis digging trenches against Luxemburg.

But all in all it should be a system where you have to balance your way so the rest of the world do not see you as a weak one and you do not want to look like a new Khan either (unless you can pull it off).

Actually that will be in the base game in a way. They added it to diplomacy. If you have a lot of troops at a border you project your power and the neighbour is more inclined to trade with you because of it. It is not everything you ask for but it is a start I think.

Yes I have also noticed this, and I am very eager to see this function, and hopefully it is something that could be expanded in the future