We are the masters of genetics... but we can't overcome strong being the opposite of very strong.

[Secret Master]

I know this was an issue before Utopia, but I thought that ascension perks would render the problem obsolete.

Essentially, if a POP has the strong trait, it cannot also get the very strong trait, no matter how many points you have or what technology you have. This is because the game says strong and very strong are opposite.

But since strong is beneficial, you can't remove it so you can replace it with very strong. This means you can't progressively improve a species. If you decide to make them strong at any point, they can never get stronger. Meanwhile, a weak species can dump the weak trait and gain very strong if you pick evolutionary mastery. Is this WAD?

 

[Vasious]

Didn't the evolution path allow for removal of positive traits, in the notes at least

 

[terrycloth]

I know this was an issue before Utopia, but I thought that ascension perks would render the problem obsolete.

Essentially, if a POP has the strong trait, it cannot also get the very strong trait, no matter how many points you have or what technology you have. This is because the game says strong and very strong are opposite.

But since strong is beneficial, you can't remove it so you can replace it with very strong. This means you can't progressively improve a species. If you decide to make them strong at any point, they can never get stronger. Meanwhile, a weak species can dump the weak trait and gain very strong if you pick evolutionary mastery. Is this WAD?

View attachment 253587 View attachment 253589

I think you're supposed to need the second ascension perk to remove it?

 

[Secret Master]

I think you're supposed to need the second ascension perk to remove it?

I have that one. That's why I'm confused.

 

[Mummolus]

Did you research the tech it unlocks? Having the perk isn't quite enough.

 

[Secret Master]

Did you research the tech it unlocks? Having the perk isn't quite enough.

Oh, that's the problem. I thought the tech came with the perk. But I need to get my scientists on that problem.

The joke is that five minutes after I made this post, the Unbidden show up. Now I don't care about armies and strength.

 

[Lothmar]

You heard the rumor, that lead to the vendor, where you bought the map, that added the map marker, that lead to the dungeon, where you fought your way to the container that has~ the THINGIE!

 

[Shermanator]

This is really something that needs to be fixed. It is absolutely illogical and broken that a species would not be able to improve itself in an area it already excels in. Going from strong to very strong for example, isn't just something you should be able to do, it's complete common sense and I'm baffled that paradox didn't fix this.

 

[Secret Master]

This is really something that needs to be fixed. It is absolutely illogical and broken that a species would not be able to improve itself in an area it already excels in. Going from strong to very strong for example, isn't just something you should be able to do, it's complete common sense and I'm baffled that paradox didn't fix this.

It works fine once you research the appropriate tech. You even get a refund on positive traits you abandon.

 

[benc85]

Is there a way to remove the # of trait picks without mods? I've got mods that add traits, and 5 picks just isn't enough

 

[The Founder]

Is there a way to remove the # of trait picks without mods? I've got mods that add traits, and 5 picks just isn't enough

Pretty sure it is moddable. Propably in the 00_defines.txt
Or maybe the specie trait file?
Was actually increased from 4 to 5 a few patches ago

Note that both the Number of Traits and the cost for each trait are picked intentionally, to avoid certain broken combinations.

 

[CyberSpyder]

It works fine once you research the appropriate tech. You even get a refund on positive traits you abandon.

Still, it would be nice/reasonable if you could do it even without the top-tier tech, if it recognized that the trait was an improvement and let you replace it if you have enough free genetic points to cover the difference. It is a bit silly that ordinary races can go straight to very strong, but strong races can't.

 

[Radene]

Proposed solution: change diction to "incompatible with".

And indeed, evolutionary ascension path does allow you to remove positive traits and even get their points refunded so you CAN upgrade from strong to very strong or from intelligent to erudite.

 

[conco]

Might just be nice for pdox to add an "upgrade_from" modifier for traits, that lets you specify if a trait is a higher level of another one, and allow you to upgrade to it, replacing the lower level one in the process.

 

[Secret Master]

It is a bit silly that ordinary races can go straight to very strong, but strong races can't.

Yes, it is a bit silly.

 

[The Founder]

Still, it would be nice/reasonable if you could do it even without the top-tier tech, if it recognized that the trait was an improvement and let you replace it if you have enough free genetic points to cover the difference. It is a bit silly that ordinary races can go straight to very strong, but strong races can't.

That would require a rework of the Ethics System. For starters, they had to define that Weak/Strong/Very Strong and the 3 (now 4) Adaptive traits belong to a category.
Wich involves adding Trait categories to the Clausewitz engine for the first time.

Too far from a trivial change, to expect it anytime soon. It is one of those changes they could have been working on for years now.