We are drowning in money. Please make it stop.

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

RNGesus322

Second Lieutenant
42 Badges
Jun 20, 2017
101
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
I would say one big reason for this, besides the AI spamming manufactories, is also the new trade goods (especially livestock, which ends up costing 3.40 towards the late game). What pdx needs to do is both nerf mid-late game money gain and introduce some more money sinks, whether its new buildings/mechanics or simply increasing the cost of miltary/advisors as the game goes on.
 

PedroLuiz

General
27 Badges
Nov 21, 2014
2.380
3.870
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
I would say one big reason for this, besides the AI spamming manufactories,
the Ai just got better at building like a normal person, why should this be a problem?
What pdx needs to do is both nerf mid-late game money gain and introduce some more money sinks, or simply increasing the cost of miltary/advisors as the game goes on.
Those are really bad ideas to kill the extra money, just make thing more expensive for no reason, but still they nerfed english economy and the rest as a whole
whether its new buildings/mechanics
they already added 5 level advisors
 

Ixal

Banned
77 Badges
Apr 5, 2008
2.730
4.605
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • King Arthur II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
why make the player pay? The AI is improving, that's the reason for this post after all, and Why should a big nation get penalties for being bigger?
Because otherwise the game becomes a boring faceroll once you are big which happens around 1600 currently.

they already added 5 level advisors
Which just transforms the money bloat into a MP bloat.
 

Martynios

Raadspensionaris
22 Badges
May 1, 2016
1.816
748
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Recently we vastly improved the AI's ability at building good buildings. This increased the money they had and, therefore all the money in the game.

So I took a good look at mid-late game finances and the biggest issue I had with it was how cheap warfare was, particularly as the game progresses. Oftentimes, Napoleonic units would be cheaper to maintain than the early gaggle of halberd men. A fairly ridiculous situation to say the least.

Unit costs have been increased the later into the game we get. Additionally the myriad of reductions to this cost (we've added many sources of maintenance cost reduction) have been reduced. The result is that large military mobilizations will prove more costly as the game progresses, and a sound economy will be required to maintain one for long. A couple other minor adjustments have been made, such as the large amount of trade and production bonuses from tech, and through observing overnights and playing, it seems to have tightened up the vast amounts of money in the mid-late game.

Of course it's something we'll continue to monitor, so I welcome any feedback on it once 1.25 lands. Thanks for your comments.
I guess it’s better than nothing, but I had really hoped for actual mechanics (professional armies) instead of just number tweaking.
 

jhanso

Advocate of Mercantilism
36 Badges
May 5, 2003
194
43
Visit site
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
development needs to be restricted to at least 1 point increase in 12 months per province, if not more strict, and be placed on a monthly outtake system like vassal annexation rather than point and dump excess mana. Far too easy to make money, agree.
 

PedroLuiz

General
27 Badges
Nov 21, 2014
2.380
3.870
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
Yes, and? Large nations have the money for that and nothing to spend it on. So rather sooner than later people have three lvl 5 advisors.
this means that you gain +1 point by spending way more Money than before
development needs to be restricted to at least 1 point increase in 12 months per province, if not more strict, and be placed on a monthly outtake system like vassal annexation rather than point and dump excess mana. Far too easy to make money, agree.
oh yeah, i doubt it would work
 

Ulmo

Second Lieutenant
6 Badges
Apr 9, 2012
157
0
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
this guy understands.

Practically everyone in this thread either doesn't know how to spend money to push the game to its limit or needs to raise their difficulty level.

You can almost always convert money into more expansion fronts, points, trucebreak efficiency, parallel war efficiency, AE reduction. Just because you don't see the faucets doesn't mean they don't exist.

In fact, too much money is more a problem suited towards tallish play. There is just simply not enough to do once you have secured your stable position.
It is not about before 1600-1650, it is about late game. I have personnally seen 500k(and that with ridiculuous expenses-like destroying every tax building to build limit buildings for landforces— I shouldnt be doing that. It is just wierd.) addionally there is a gold inflation. My max incomes could barely reach 1k before. And now İt is very easy to do it. And I am not talking a 10/20% increase. I got 2.5k income in one of my games. My point is that the upper limit increased too much.
 

jhanso

Advocate of Mercantilism
36 Badges
May 5, 2003
194
43
Visit site
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
it is rampant development that leads to excessive $. Your own development, the development of the AI, your trade power in the node with all the development. Playing on VH leads to massive amounts of development all around the world, with your own country looking like it should with every other AI nation having wasted its valuable points in poor choices. Restrict the pace of development would put realistic constraints on someone like me who likes to play small nations in poor areas, and the overall growth of wealth. Putting it into systems tied to trade good over a 12/24 month timeframe would direct the AI's development (crucial). Theres only so many times u can make San'A into the Rome of Yemen by 1455 before the strategy loses its spark, the current development setup allows the player to jump light years ahead of the starting game setup in a few years. Theres been so much progress in this game towards killing exploits, but the development system is the biggest area where the player has an advantage over the AI. Restricting it to 12-24 month blocks is the same thing as not allowing anyone to declare war on the AI in the first month of the game. Necessary.
 

cristofolmc

Banned
32 Badges
Mar 5, 2009
3.455
4.351
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
why make the player pay? The AI is improving, that's the reason for this post after all, and Why should a big nation get penalties for being bigger?

Because the AI isn't really getting much better. And they are not penalties for being bigger, they are supposed to represent how insanely expensive it was for big empire to upkeep their armies and also fix the ridiculous issue which is what this thread was about: drowning in money by 1650, which is even more ridiculous.
 

Florryworry__

First Lieutenant
53 Badges
Dec 13, 2015
242
354
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • PDXCON 2017 Standard Ticket holder
Because the AI isn't really getting much better. And they are not penalties for being bigger, they are supposed to represent how insanely expensive it was for big empire to upkeep their armies and also fix the ridiculous issue which is what this thread was about: drowning in money by 1650, which is even more ridiculous.
Yes the AI got SIGNIFICANTLY better in the last few patches; you mean to tell me that AI's used to have a couple thousand ducats in the bank and now have a couple of TENS of thousands with all buildings fleshed out isn't better? They litterally have 1.5 to 3 times the troops they used to how is that not better?

I hear alot of desire for realism in this thread. We want realistic war costs, maintaining an empire cost; building upkeep etc... No you don't: If you do that you fight one war and then you'd be forced to pay back loans for 50 years or go bankrupt. Realistic war costs = no fun. You can argue that it might need to be more expensive, which for the record I would not, but realism is really not something to shoot for here not even close to it. Gameplay > Realistic history.

It might just be my weird perspective but I never run into 'too much money' issues. That is in large part due to the difficulty level; you don't need to set some amazing crazy goal like a world conquest to spend all your hard earned ducats. You just need to click options and bump up the difficulty slider. That's it you're done. I guarantee you'll spend your money. I can't even remember the last time I had enough money for 1 lvl 5 advisor let alone 3 let alone build some buildings. Unless it was a game where I specifically set myself up to make crazy dosh; like own India trade-money dosh. Wars ARE expensive; you are almost constantly at 0 or close to 0 manpower so you have to use mercs; 1 rebellion of 20k; thats 600 ducats down the drain.


Look i'm not trying to sound elitist or anything but really if you want to see what it's like to not have money just try 1 game of very hard. Wars and ergo 'maintaining' an empire will be twice to three times more expensive due to larger enemy armies and more agressive AI's.
The way I see it NEW player won't have too much money on normal. Experienced players do, i think almost noone who plays on very hard has too much money. Do we really want to make it harder for newer players to get into the game? Instead of just encouraging players to move to a higher difficulty setting? I think this something worth thinking about.
I can't for the life of me see how more expenses will make the game more fun but I might be proven wrong ofcourse.

Finally I realise i'm a minority position here I'm just raising the possibilty of moving to very hard in order to have something to spend your ducats on; without making it harder for newer players or excrutiating for very hard players; I mean we will adjust and cope like with loans and the more expensive mercs but one needs to ask if this is the direction we ought to be moving into. Making 'normal' the new very hard by constantly making war more expensive seems odd to me and then making very hard 'super mega ultra hard' Come to think of it I do like the sound of that. Still it might have unintended consequences: Making it a stare at the map untill you can afford 2 dudes with a stick to go hit 1 guy with a hammer instead of Sending legions of badass spacemarines against hordes of hapless enemies.
 
Last edited:

BeyondExpectation

Major
14 Badges
Apr 3, 2016
797
386
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics

SuperstarPolitoed

Corporal
37 Badges
Feb 13, 2017
35
11
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
People should seriously be careful about what they wish for. The unrealistic aspects of this game is what a lot of players seriously enjoy. Being able to do hard achievements from a country that can't afford many troops is one of them. If we start to make money scarcity a factor, they are going to grow to hate hard starts. The game is a sandbox almost, it's as hard as you make it. If you aren't going head first into the unkillable blob and pushing your economy to the limit, then you aren't going to have your economy stressed anyway. The same if you don't increase difficulty and the same if you sit on a tall nation concerned with a niche goal.

When you watch a talented player like Florryworry struggle with his economy while owning Constantinople, the problem is not with the economy but those who do not create impossible tasks to overcome. The game is a grand strategy meets a sandbox. The world is your oyster, challenge yourself.

Maybe the costs of massive armies can be tinkered but DDRJake and company should consider the players that play to challenge themselves first before players that crave a realism they will obviously grow to despise. Realism is a terrible balancing tool/advice. No one will handle or accept realism when they see it's true nature. How many players quit when they see massive alliance blocs to their disadvantage? That is the true nature of realism they despise.
 

randomgamer71

Captain
83 Badges
Sep 8, 2013
494
126
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • BATTLETECH
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
development needs to be restricted to at least 1 point increase in 12 months per province, if not more strict, and be placed on a monthly outtake system like vassal annexation rather than point and dump excess mana. Far too easy to make money, agree.

Development should cost money other than mana, with a cost increasing with the development level (i.e 1-10 dev, 5$ for point (from 5 to 6, 30$);11-20 dev, 10$ for point, and so on).
 

PedroLuiz

General
27 Badges
Nov 21, 2014
2.380
3.870
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
Development should cost money other than mana, with a cost increasing with the development level (i.e 1-10 dev, 5$ for point (from 5 to 6, 30$);11-20 dev, 10$ for point, and so on).
then you'd really have a money inflation, only if investing Money *per month* and with a minimun time, and even so that would only work if it worked to reduce development cost
 

PedroLuiz

General
27 Badges
Nov 21, 2014
2.380
3.870
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
And they are not penalties for being bigger, they are supposed to represent how insanely expensive it was for big empire to upkeep their armies and also fix the ridiculous issue which is what this thread was about: drowning in money by 1650, which is even more ridiculous.
well, do you want to know why na Empire fell? just play any game like age of empires on a huge map, you won't be able to micro everything and your empire will start being ineficiente, then as you grow there'll be a time when you really can't expend because there's too much to worry about and there's plenty of places were your resouces are being thrown away, and there's a lot of enemies that will try to take your stuff.
Do you really want THAT in Eu4?
 

Ixal

Banned
77 Badges
Apr 5, 2008
2.730
4.605
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • King Arthur II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
I hear alot of desire for realism in this thread. We want realistic war costs, maintaining an empire cost; building upkeep etc... No you don't:
Partially right. People do not primarily want realism, but a fun game which does not become a boring faceroll halfway through it. If the measures to ensure that are also realistic its a bonus.
And no, setting ever more ridiculous goals to challenge yourself like 1600 world conquests is not a solution. Most players do not have an interest in world conquest grind and exploiting the system to do it.
They want to play whatever they feel like and want the game to stay enjoyable all the time. And for that even big nations have to face meaningfull challenges (and by that I dont mean calculating how to stay at 99% overextension).
Addressing the gold flood which makes gold and manpower a meaningless ressource is a good first step. Next would imo be a rework of stability so that large nations face more internal issues (and more interesting ones than rebel-whack-a-mole) to keep players challenged once they are the "top dog".
If that results in the top players not being able to do WC as fast as they are now and medium skilled players not being able to do WC at all so be it. I trade WC bragging for an interesting mid-late game instead of a faceroll any day.
 
Last edited:

bbqftw

banana vendor for unhuman entities
2 Badges
Jan 18, 2014
5.394
6.187
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
If you don't challenge yourself then you will always be dissatisfied by the lack of challenge in this game.

In fact the game being enjoyable and facing challenge are generally mutually exclusive as most people don't like losing. If you don't stand a chance of losing then you are not challenging yourself. What was the last time you lost a campaign?

Also I like how you passive aggressive throw in exploit, as if you have some purer game understanding based on being bored on a difficulty designed for beginning players.