WC with Poland

[unmerged(49508)]

Dear All

I need your advice on my current game. I never tried a WC, but now it seems that I am strong enough to make an attempt. I play 1.08 vanilla

The situation is as follows: (sorry, no screenshots) I control East Europe, bordering Astrakhan and Crimea. Russia is still alive, but greatly reduced. (I kept them around because Peter the Great brings up events that give many manufactories.) I also have Bohemia, 1/3 of Germany, England, and couple of random provinces here and there across the European costline. Besides 5 or 6 Spanish colonies and TPs I have South America fully converted and North America is also mine, but around 10 useless provinces are owned by France and Spain. In the Caribbean I have only a few holdings. In west Africa I have some provinces and I have South Africa and a converted Zimbabwe. I settled in the Indian Costline and cople of islands in Indonesia and all of Australia. And let us not forget about Tahiti.

It's 1750. I am allied with Austria (BWB, from Friesland to Smirna), Papal States and Russia. The other coalition includes France, Spain, Genova and Sweden. The Netherlands, The Knights, Connaught and Scotland are unallied. That is Europe. I have a BB of 48/52 (just diplo-annexed England) Oh, and I play at normal difficulty, so there's no BB war.

A few words about my economy: I maxed out infra and trade. My annual income is 1500-1800 ducats, monthly income is 1000-1200 ducats. I have monopolies in almost all of the CoTs.

As for military, my land tech is slightly better than Fench and Swedish LT, one CRT ahead of Austrian LT. Spain and Russia are way behind. In Naval tech I am 2-3 CRT ahead of the second best. I expect to reach the end of the tech table in 10-15 years. France has the biggest army, around 6-700k, while I have only 450k, which is my support limit. Austria's army is about the same size, others have insignificant armies.

I need advice especially on DP sliders, who to attack first, second, etc... what to do in peace time, how to handle a civil war.

I will gladly share more details if needed.

 

[Chaingun]

Since you're in 1750 you might want to crank up the difficulty level to Very Hard to get those free war declarations... It all depends on if you feel you otherwise can generate stability fast enough to declare new wars.

 

[Alexandru H.]

No way to complete the WC, I'm afraid with that level of difficulty...

 

[unmerged(3931)]

You need an army of a few million to pull of a WC so late in the game. Count on running at -3 stability, unless you have BB wars. So you will probably have lots of rebellions and civil wars. It seems hopeless to me, but then I have not tried such a late WC even at very hard difficulty. Where will you get all the diplomats needed for DoWs and making peace?

 

[unmerged(49508)]

Thanks for your comments so far.

The shortage of diplomats bother me too. And it takes almost a year to improve one level of stability. Lets do the maths. I guess there are 50-60 more countries in the world. If we say that on average I need 2.5 DoWs to annex a country Then its 5 diplomats per country. Actually it should be less, because sometimes the losing country offers peace and I can DoW multiple countries if they are allied. So its 250-300 diplomats that are needed, possibly less. I can get 3 or 4 diplomats per year, so its 210-280 for the rest of the game. It is quite tight so I need all the tips to reduce the diplomat consumption. BTW how long does it take to reduce war exhaustion? As for stability a DoW without CB reduces stability by two. If I do well and can make it with a 100 DoW than its 200 stab hit needing 200 years to recover from it. Now this is the killer. I read somewhere, that if I disband my armies then I can recieve DoWs, because my neighbours believe that I am weak. Then I can hire mercenaries. Somewhere else I read that mercenaries are on short supply at the end of the game... How can I get a CB on any country? It is easy if the country has a CoT, but otherwise?

I begin to see how hopeless it is. However I try to figure out how far can I get.

Any further comments are still welcome.

 

[Duke of Wellington]

If you feel alright about doing it switching to very hard would of course solve all these problems. The free DoWs costing of course no diplomats or stability but that could be viewed as an exploit

 

[Jayavarman]

Well, I hope you fail, because then the game has achieved what it was meant for.

 

[unmerged(3931)]

Concentrate most effort on DoWing large alliances. When you annex a nation, an unallied nation can join the alliance if relations are good with the alliance leader. Far away countries will ally against you if they and an aliiance leader both border you. Accept peace offers that are given to you. Here are some tips on peace negotiations.

I do not imagine that disbanding armies is going to be of use. You need huge armies to accomplish WC in a short time. To build such huge armies from zero will give you a lot of war exhaustion. War exhaustion declines at the rate of about one per six months while at peace. I am not sure about the rate of decline while at war. It may be more like one per two or three years. War exhaustion increases at the rate of one per every yearly amount of manpower built. Also battles increase war exhaustion, perhaps similarly one per every yearly amount of manpower killed. So it is important to increase manpower as fast as possible. Read the manpower FAQ to understand how to get manpower from other continents.

If you are at one year to recover a stability now, it will be worse when you build all the troops you need and take over additional territory. You can go to –3 stability. Then you only need to recover one stability for each DoW. Then of course you say goodbye to your trade income, lots of tax income, and traded grain support and say hello to rebellions and civil wars. Stability poses a real problem for you. You did not even figure in the negative stability events. I think the only chance is by slugging it out at -3 stability.

You can manufacture CBs through diplomatic actions such as allies that dishonor your alliance. That of course means a greater use of diplomats, which you do not have. Moving DP sliders toward Aristocratic, Land, and Quantity may help for more diplomats and manpower. You have only few DP slider moves to make though. All in all, I would say WC is not possible.

 

[unmerged(49508)]

Duke,
Yes, I consider it cheating to switch between difficulty levels. I could build up my kingdom in peace and quiet, but it is not fair, that now, that no one can challenge me I get the free DoWs and high stability if I change.

Jayavarman,
Fully agree. This game should not allow WC. But since it is possible (at least for the most skilled players) I would like to achieve it once. Then I would be proud of myself and say hey, it very tedious, I won't do it again.

Tom,
Are you sure that millions of soldiers are needed even if I can select who to attack and when? Well, could be because of the massive rebellions and civil wars. Thank you for the comments on war exhaustion. I was not aware of these things.

I will use the rest of the game for experimenting.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Pity you did not post earlier on. Then you could have accomplished WC. Now a simple thing like lack of diplos kills you.

What you should have done earlier on was to forcevassalise SPA, AUS, SWE, RUS and ENG. Then DA them. And perhaps gone Aristo 10 (I always do), whether that gives you more diplos or not depends on the aristo raking of your monarch. To be Catholic also helps when it comes to number of diplos received.

For an European China is the big problem with Mughal/Delhi (whoever is the winner in their century-long combat) normally the 2nd most difficult - in both cases because of many provinces. However China can usually be annexed in four rounds if you allow yourself to do some smart things. That is not as sure for the Indian kingdom.

Normally you should not pay stab for DOWing.

 

[unmerged(45766)]

For an European China is the big problem with Mughal/Delhi (whoever is the winner in their century-long combat) normally the 2nd most difficult - in both cases because of many provinces. However China can usually be annexed in four rounds if you allow yourself to do some smart things. That is not as sure for the Indian kingdom.

Late game, China is not a problem. OE neither. Two Dows are needed, nothing more, before you can annex them.

 

[unmerged(49508)]

Well, I did not start the game with the intention of a WC, I just wanted to create a large empire and to colonize and convert a lot. This is my first GC anyway and fifth or sixth game ever. I focused on colonizing so much and neglected european politics for a long time. I think, that if WC was in my mind from the start, then 50 or so years earlier could I get to this point.

If my free time allows it I will give it an other go. What is your view? Is WC easier accomplishable at very hard or at lower levels? I know that BB wars make things easier in the end game, but earlier how much more difficult it is to achieve your goals? I will surely move up in terms of difficulty in my next game but I am a bit timid to jump two levels at once.

Two dows to annex China? And how much other diplomatic actions? Or turboannexation is involved?

Daniel, what do you mean no stab hit for DoWing? You need a CB for that. How do you get one againts each country?

 

[unmerged(36846)]

Two dows to annex China?

I dont think a 40 province China can be annexed in 2 dows, maybe 3 or 4.

Daniel, what do you mean no stab hit for DoWing? You need a CB for that. How do you get one againts each country?

Find some way to get a casus belli.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Late game, China is not a problem. OE neither. Two Dows are needed, nothing more, before you can annex them.

Yeah, 2 DOWs is the optimal, you nitpicker , but it would be too simple for him to understand the trick if one wrote that, so I wrote a more normal number for a late start BB Wars where the right moment may not have arrived when the BB wars starts (and you of course own Shanghai/Guangzhou when they start so China will be there DOWing you).

It is always more fun if you find out the tricks for yourself, with as little help as possible. Not that it is a very complicated trick this one

 

[unmerged(6147)]

XXXXXXX [Edited away].

Aryus, don't be so specific, merely hint. More fun for Bagoj then

Concerning VH vs lesser difficulty I have only tried one on lesser, as Venice. Then you must of course start much earlier. I prefer VH I think, more time for "peaceful" expansion. But the CW is a problem on VH. Better have a very short BB war phase. It can be done in less than 30 years. But then you need to know how to prepare and proceed.

 

[unmerged(36846)]

Aryus, don't be so specific, merely hint. More fun for Bagoj then

True true, I'll edit.. hoping he didnt see it.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Yeah, 2 DOWs is the optimal, you nitpicker , but it would be too simple for him to understand the trick if one wrote that, so I wrote a more normal number for a late start BB Wars where the right moment may not have arrived when the BB wars starts (and you of course own Shanghai/Guangzhou when they start so China will be there DOWing you).

It is always more fun if you find out the tricks for yourself, with as little help as possible. Not that it is a very complicated trick this one

Hmm, now how could I strip a country of every province except it's capital in one go around...

 

[unmerged(3931)]

Tom,
Are you sure that millions of soldiers are needed even if I can select who to attack and when? Well, could be because of the massive rebellions and civil wars.

You need millions of men for late game WC because you are going to want to fight the six largest alliances simultaneously. As soon as possible you might make a few more DoWs. You really want to stomp each nation so that they offer you the provinces you want. Rebellions and civil wars mean you need significant numbers of troops spread across the planet. You need to have more than enough men to handle it all. Too few men means you proceed much more slowly. Just enough men means you must build more men during war which increases war exhaustion. That causes rebellions, and putting down rebellions requires battles which cause more war exhaustion. It is better to not have to build troops while at war. More men means faster progress, less war exhaustion due to blitz style play, and fewer diplomats required for acceptable peace.

You need millions of men for a late game WC. Are you able to build conscription centers? The one cornerstone to a late game WC strategy is to have lots of conscription centers for more manpower and support. Without the conscription centers, the right DP sliders, and millions of men, you just cannot hope to complete a late game WC. Of course it is fun to see how close you can get.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Hmm, now how could I strip a country of every province except it's capital in one go around...

Yeah, that is how I want the mind working. Nice Stolen rutters!

 

[unmerged(49508)]

Thank you again for your activity. I am getting more and more confused. Annexing China with two dows occupies my brain...

I don't have any experience in fighting asian opponents. Does owning asian cots make the original owner to dow you automatically? I acquired all my european cots by annexing countries, so they could not fight back... Or is the Chinese AI so aggressive that upon recieving a CB they instantly dow? I don't expect to be dowed at all. If there is no automatic dow, then who on earth would dow the world's number one superpower?

In Europe I see no problem. I FV/DA the large countries and DV/DA the small ones. These need lot of diplomats to increase relations, but now, that I refrained from WC I see them being in abundance.

I can continue my game in the weekend. As for conscription centers, I don't have any so far. It was only a few years ago that I reached the appropriate tech level.

Aryus, I did see your post. Claiming the throne of China is a bit difficult task to achieve. After annexing I should release them as vassals and RM them. As for lending money, I read in the diplo faq, that the ai rarely accepts offers in the newer patches.

One way to deal with China occured to me and it's settling in the neighborhood and wait for the revolutionary times. Then some or even many provinces may defect.