WC take 2.

[hauptman]

Ok so all the Ottoman talk has got me ready to give it another go now with 1.4. The reduction to ae should hopefully, make it a much simpler task, especially with the turkish core times (and cost) and a bit more experience under my belt I think I can do this.... maybe.

Caveat; I have same culture group cores modded to 400 years, because it still is bugged.

So First order of Buisness, get Greece. Nothing special nor difficult here. I Dow Byzantium as i siege albania, then march around dropping seige stacks. Had a few extra troops so walked em down to Caraman and dowed him too before he could find an ally. Annex Albania and the Byzies, then vassalize Candar. Athens automatically becomes my vassal because he was occupied when I annexed Byzantium. I core Morea but not constantinople. There i set a missionary to work, and hopefully spawn a rebel.

As I wait on the rebels, I just go ahead and break my truce with serbia before his war with bosnia can be decided either way. I annex him, then just go ahead and annex goth bosnia and walachia. Austria forced Hungary to release croatia in a war, so I dow them and force religion/vassalize taking Lika for myself as well, to get a border with the empire.

At -3 stab and 7 war exhaustion, Constantinople finally spawn some orthodox rebels. I enact the descision to move my capital then wait for the rebels to win the seige and convert it back.

As I wait on this I vassalize Kandar as well then begin selling off anatolia to my two vassals there.





Then I settle in and wait. I'm kinda poor, my manpower is shot, and I just got to wait a bit before I move on.

The burgundian inheritance fires and now I have to wait even longer. My plan, wait for France to make a move into the empire, then take advantage of austria being over stretched there. It takes many years, In the mean time, I get some techs, get some ideas, vassalize rome and tripoli just to fill the time. Once I unlock the dipslots and annex athens and croatia I go ahead and ally saxony and the palitinate, hoping they will get me into some kinda war. They dont before france makes his move on savoy.

I give it a little time to let austrias troops get to france then I dow him, this drags in Mainz and the Palitinate. So I go straight after them. Seigem down. I'm able to both force religion and vassalize mainz, but can only force religion on the palitinate. Once that's done I sign a white peace with austria as poland is all over greece. However just before the peace was signed, I got access from bohemia and called saxony to the war. Dishonored call. My troops stand ready on top of bohemias army as I dow saxony. I beat the snot out of his ally's (bohemia) army then move to seige saxony down. The warleader changes, and I get a little worried, but I can still sign a seperate peace with saxony. After many battles the loss of all my manpower, and near utter defeat, saxony falls. he's worth 50 warscore so I can both force religion and vassalize. I sign a white peace with bohemia and run home to lick my wounds.

Buyt i now have the next election if I stay on top of the palitinate.

 

[miguellima]

So you didn't join the empire correct? you just force converted/vassalized some electors?
Because i tried the Urbino strategy and i managed to get into the empire with 200 relations with austria. But the problem was that i didn't conquer the balkans yet, Byzantium owns more than half of greece, Saruhan and Karaman own Anatolia and i won't be able to get that back in 20 years.
So next time i'll try what you did because i assume that once you get the emperorship, you can join your provinces correct?

Also, is it possible for Austria making the Orthodox electors to convert again through the special action emperors have?

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

So you didn't join the empire correct? you just force converted/vassalized some electors?
Because i tried the Urbino strategy and i managed to get into the empire with 200 relations with austria. But the problem was that i didn't conquer the balkans yet, Byzantium owns more than half of greece, Saruhan and Karaman own Anatolia and i won't be able to get that back in 20 years.
So next time i'll try what you did because i assume that once you get the emperorship, you can join your provinces correct?

Also, is it possible for Austria making the Orthodox electors to convert again through the special action emperors have?

Enforce religious unity doesn't work on electors, they could try doing it through war, but that's why you're there I guess

 

[oblio-]

Good luck!

There's no need to stop the colonizers this, version, right? So no need to move towards Granada/Morocco.

 

[Stategem161803]

I feel like this attempt at stacking coring modifiers will look great right up to the point you meet a nation with +100% coring cost NI and local nobility that is too large to vassalize in even 2 wars.

I will be interested to see how you deal with this problem. I am still convinced that straight-up coring will always be sub-optimal and I will never do it.

 

[Sensational]

I feel like this attempt at stacking coring modifiers will look great right up to the point you meet a nation with +100% coring cost NI and local nobility that is too large to vassalize in even 2 wars.

I will be interested to see how you deal with this problem. I am still convinced that straight-up coring will always be sub-optimal and I will never do it.

There aren't that many nations that have that modifier. Dai Viet and Hungary are the only ones I can think of.

Of course, if the option is there and it's faster one would simply break them down and return cores where possible. This is true for every other nation as well. Stacking the coring modifier does not mean that you have to core everything.

 

[Stategem161803]

There aren't that many nations that have that modifier. Dai Viet and Hungary are the only ones I can think of.

Of course, if the option is there and it's faster one would simply break them down and return cores where possible. This is true for every other nation as well. Stacking the coring modifier does not mean that you have to core everything.

What I'm saying is the optimal strategy is still to core nothing no matter what your cost modifier is. Lots of countries take aristocracy and others have NIs. Bohemia, Poland, France, and Denmark to name a few. After 1600 France becomes nearly unconquerable due to core expiration. You can still vassal feed of course, but rushing the HRE seems like a waste of time to me. As does flipping to orthodox. I say that because the coring modifiers cease to be useful for many nations in game faster than you might think.

Even if you have -98% coring modifier(the max). Coring a 5 base tax province in France with aristocracy will still cost over 100 admin points.

Edit: I think this fact illustrates how utterly stupid coring costs are.

 

[TheBloke]

Caveat; I have same culture group cores modded to 400 years, because it still is bugged.

What bugs are you still seeing?

 

[Rain Envy]

I tried this strategy though I joined the HRE by taking Urbino. The hardest part is dealing with all the damn nationalist rebels. Honestly, Hungary is better as an ally rather than an enemy. As soon as you take Urbino you are strong enough to completely siege Austria. At game start, Ottoman's have the strongest army in the land. Austria doesn't stand a chance.

 

[miguellima]

Can someone explain the access we get when on war with emperor/HRE members?

1 - I DoWed Austria(emperor) for Krain and the coastal province, they were at war with hansa and that war ended soon after i Dowed, but no Austrian army ever came down from the Baltic. I was just sieging with NO opposition whatsoever. Don't they have mil access through HRE lands when at war?

2 - Shortly after that war, i was warring some Italian states, Milan, Genoa and Savoy joined(this was like 3 diff wars) but Modena and that one landlocked one next to them didn't. I didn't have access to those 3 countries cuz my path was blocked(later, Modena granted me mil access lol)

3 - some 5-7 years later i'm again at war with some Italian states and the above 3 Savoy and Milan joined. Those 2 were behind Genoese provinces who didn't joined the war. Somehow i can walk through HRE lands with no problem, even being able to go up to Saxony and such through Austria/Bohemia even though they were not at war. All the HRE land i conquered was still considered part of the HRE but i was not a member.

Can someone clarify how that access works? It's kinda important when you want to dismantle the HRE later on and some elector is behind countries that are not in the war and no one grants you mil access.

 

[Sensational]

What I'm saying is the optimal strategy is still to core nothing no matter what your cost modifier is. Lots of countries take aristocracy and others have NIs. Bohemia, Poland, France, and Denmark to name a few. After 1600 France becomes nearly unconquerable due to core expiration. You can still vassal feed of course, but rushing the HRE seems like a waste of time to me. As does flipping to orthodox. I say that because the coring modifiers cease to be useful for many nations in game faster than you might think.

Even if you have -98% coring modifier(the max). Coring a 5 base tax province in France with aristocracy will still cost over 100 admin points.

Edit: I think this fact illustrates how utterly stupid coring costs are.

So your plan is to do what, force vassalize the HRE?

 

[Stategem161803]

So your plan is to do what, force vassalize the HRE?

Obviously, if you're trying for a WC you have to get into the HRE. I'm just saying there's no reason to rush it. You can't afford to concentrate on anything too much.

Then again, maybe hauptman will figure it out.

I still think Austria is in the best position for WC.

 

[Sensational]

Obviously, if you're trying for a WC you have to get into the HRE. I'm just saying there's no reason to rush it. You can't afford to concentrate on anything too much.

The reason you rush it is not for the coring cost, it's for the free vassals.

 

[lordelenath]

Austria is pretty much screwed now without diplo-vassalization.

 

[delpiero1234]

What national ideas do you take as Ottomans for WC and do you westernize? In lade game Ottoman troops suck

 

[Stategem161803]

The reason you rush it is not for the coring cost, it's for the free vassals.

I'm aware of that, although I would argue getting the HRE subjugated by revoking the privilege is more important because it makes you invincible.

The trick, I guess, is not letting the act of rushing get in the way of the necessity for conquests in every direction. You can't rest for one second in a WC.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

What national ideas do you take as Ottomans for WC and do you westernize? In lade game Ottoman troops suck

You don't westernize no, that would make it impossible to release chinese tech-group as vassals. Since you are adding the entirety of Europe, Asia and Africa to the HRE and releasing as free vassals, your troop quality is irrelevant.

As for idea groups, Diplomatic (you need the -25% unjustified demands to keep peace costs managable), Expansion (mainly for the CB), Religious (again CB), Administrative (core cost) and Exploration (CB and you can't really afford to wait for automatic reveals) are pretty much required.

 

[Seelmeister]

Moved to the AAR subforum

 

[Morgan Wight]

You don't westernize no, that would make it impossible to release chinese tech-group as vassals. Since you are adding the entirety of Europe, Asia and Africa to the HRE and releasing as free vassals, your troop quality is irrelevant.

As for idea groups, Diplomatic (you need the -25% unjustified demands to keep peace costs managable), Expansion (mainly for the CB), Religious (again CB), Administrative (core cost) and Exploration (CB and you can't really afford to wait for automatic reveals) are pretty much required.

Working Exploration into the mid-game is something I'd like to do, but am unsure of unsure of the timing. What would your idea progression look like? Do you skip military ideas entirely? Myself, I typically like to start working on Offensive as my 3rd group (after Diplomatic and Religious) to mitigate ahead of time penalties, . After that I typically go Expansion, Innovative, Admin; even though I love Innovative, that's probably where I'd try place to fit in Exploration (or put it in 4th and delay Expansion). My reservation is that it seems like constant conquest and 3 Diplo groups (in the first 5) would put too much strain on your Diplo points. Moreover, your Diplo tech would be very low (i.e. puny colonial range), which would make it quite difficult to really leverage the Exploration ideas to their fullest. I know that lots of WC attempts do utilize them though, so I'd love to know how to best take advantage of them!

 

[hauptman]

Moved to the AAR subforum

Now no one will see it! not even me! Nobody comes here.