WC: How to manage in time?

[secretchief]

And here are all my stats compressed into four images. Firstly, Government, Court and Diplomacy:

Secondly, Economy, Trade and Technology, including a 1/2 glimpses of my armies, merchants and diplomats in the sidebar:

Thirdly, Stability, Ideas and Religion:

And lastly, Military, Subjects and Estates as well as the 2/2 glimpse into my armies and navies in the side bar:

Hope that was enlightening

 

[Laurent1944]

Three quick things:
_ you have manpower 0. Usual for new players but your need to learn how to lose less manpower in wars.
_ you don't have power projection at 50+. You should basically from very soon from the start of the game up to the point where nobody is string enough to be your rival (and still, when you have one rival left, wage a big war against it and seize the max number of provinces to have +100 in power projection, at -1 a year that gives you close to a century of bonus 3 MP/month).
_ you have empty forts. Just destroy all of them, they are costing you money that will be better spent elsewhere.

As for the maps, your small presence in India is an issue. Also it seems you don't colonize in Philippines, this is an easy trade company to create.

 

[secretchief]

Yeah, that manpower is due to me just having finished a war against the Brahmanis now, I usually have between 50k and 100k ready (although often having to spend army professionalism to get up, getting 45k each time). The PP has been an issue for some time, since I haven't really been touching Ming apart from the 1st Brahmani War where they were allied. I broke that alliance after the peace. I have recently understood the PP concept, and worked to keep it over 50, but that hasn't been the case since the early 1600s really. But I should thus have a serious presence in East Asia and continuously be hammering them, also taking The Philippines? I have a row of forts along the Rhine (Maginot line?) and one on each side of the Dardanelles (Constantinople and the other province), since I feel I earn enough to keep these areas more defensible.

Edit: Oh, and one on Gotland, I believe. And I see I have forgotten to demolish the ones in Tlemcen (3) and Kongo (1). But that's an oversight.

Editedit: Also forgot my forts in Landshut and Salzburg. Always forget this piece of land in my possession.

 

[PhoenixG]

yeah... your absolutism is horrible. That is really a problem. At 100 absolutism you'll get 40% admin eff. Admin eff reduce coring cost, integration cost, the amount of AE you'll get and how much you can ask in a peace deal. Pretty much if you have 100 absolutism now and admin tech 17, you could ask 50% more land in one peace deal. Very important to get it.

First fire the english civil war disaster to ditch your current government and get a despotic monarchy. Second raise your absolutism to 50 and trigger the court and country disaster. During the Court and country you need to keep your absolutism above 65 to get the +20 max absolutism. After that start eating the world.
Also be careful with stuff that decrease absolutism, such as buy down war exhaustion and raising autonomy.

Also start considering using mercs, cause it will only get worse.

Also you can cut down the number of infantry, stop using horses and get more cannons.

 

[KaiserJohan]

Three quick things:
_ you have manpower 0. Usual for new players but your need to learn how to lose less manpower in wars.
_ you don't have power projection at 50+. You should basically from very soon from the start of the game up to the point where nobody is string enough to be your rival (and still, when you have one rival left, wage a big war against it and seize the max number of provinces to have +100 in power projection, at -1 a year that gives you close to a century of bonus 3 MP/month).
_ you have empty forts. Just destroy all of them, they are costing you money that will be better spent elsewhere.

As for the maps, your small presence in India is an issue. Also it seems you don't colonize in Philippines, this is an easy trade company to create.

I echo this; Forts are largely unnecessary and you should always be fighting offensive wars, not defensive ones. Build up your alliance network so that it will deter any possible aggressor. You should make it so you are never declared on and delay any coalitions as long as possible - ideally never get any. Get mercs to solve the manpower problem.

Administrative early is a given. I would argue it's either a choice between Religous or Influence+Humanist; in which case I would almost always go with influence+humanist. Religious have been pretty much nerfed constantly with late Deus Vult and no more BROT to counteract AE.
Most religions have enough missionaries and missionary strength decisions anyway and late game you want to be able to conquer new land and have zero unrest from day1. Diplomatic later on for province warscore cost reduction. You'd want Exploration or atleast parts of it for a Colonist/Explorer to snake your way around the world to open up new conquest oppertunities like getting a foothold in India before that subcontinent becomes one enourmous blob.

As others have mentioned having good income and land is more important than pure development numbers. Once you approach the Age of Absolutism you should stock up on military points, lower autonomy and use the -33% harsh treatment mission reward and just spam harsh treatments everywhere to max your Absolutism very early on and then go crazy

EDIT: Also get DotF as you will constantly be in war

 

[Laurent1944]

Posted the above before your economy screen. Some more remarks:

_ your trade is doing pretty well, congrats. Still you control at most 67% of trade power in the Channel (662 for your power for a total of 1000+) so you can test two things: first stop collecting elsewhere, it will boost your trade power in the Channel by 150% and this may boost your income too. Then next month, you can try to collect in nodes where you have almost total control, like Ivory Coast and Bordeaux. And then change your merchants that transfer from nodes with small value and with only one exit, like Cape of Good Hope. Your merchant here is probably giving you only less than one ducat, you should find a place where he will be better used. If you go to the steer everywhere and collect in Channel only, use your light ships to privateer in Sevilla and Genoa.
_ you have 22% of your state population being French (Francien... don't know where that world is coming from...) and it is not accepted culture. Doing it will boost your economy and manpower.
_ absolutism 8 is way too low...
_ religious unity 70% is also much too low IMHO. Humanism will help or search if a policy can help.
_ regarding advisors, the one giving +10% in tariffs is not the best one. You win 34 in tariffs, with 70% bonus, so that means that your basis for tariff is 20 and your advisors is giving you 2 ducats per month... while one giving +10% commercial efficiency will give you around 13 and one giving +10% production around 10.
_ as for generals, I will just dump the one with 1 siege pip. Generals in EU4 can teleport so you don't need so many of them.
_ why do you have only one rival ? Russia rivalled you, do the same to them and embargo them, that will be +8 power projection, then send insults to them and you will be at 50+
_ many of your fleet do nothing. You should have more light ship fleets boosting trade power... or privateering.

 

[Immutable Mushroom]

Okay, I think this is pretty doable, and you're on a good pace expansion-wise. Will need to fix some things imo though.

1. Idea groups: I'd ditch both Exploration and Expansion. As people have mentioned, you need Admin way, way more than you need Expansion, which is pretty bad. But I'd also grab Diplomatic - it's almost as good as Admin here. -20% war score cost + cheaper truce-breaks are both amazing. If you don't have MoH, take Exploration again as one of your last groups later.

This is not super relevant to this run, but imo quality is one of the weaker military groups for WC. The AI usually just runs away after you reach numerical superiority. I think Defensive (gives huge morale boost + slows down annoying AI sieging far-off corners of your country), Offensive (+FL, siege ability, discipline), and Quantity are all better for SP. Quality only really shines when stacked with lots of combat ability and discipline bonuses (they're multiplicative) and when you're fighting human opponents who will more often fight instead of running.

2. Absolutism: Max this out ASAP. Piss off particularists as usual. I'd tag-switch to ditch the English Monarchy. It's faster than triggering the disaster (which does end immediately TBF if you'd prefer not to), so you can focus on Court and Country instead. Tag-switching to Italy for the CCR would be nice, after killing the minors there (pope gives you another missionary).

3. Econ: Kill Kilwa right away because he's stealing a ton of your trade $$$. Afterwards, you can just steer all of the East Indies + chunks of India there as an artificial end node. Also, you' probably want a promoted Admin advisor.

4. Army: Not much to say here except slacken + merc up. Can use Quality-Religious to make up for 10% siege ability. T

(Random, but it looks like you should promote Francien. Especially if you don't tag switch.)

 

[Laurent1944]

Regarding idea groups, I wrote that Quality was OK but was actually thinking Offensive... The most limiting factor in late game wars is siege speed. Defensive is not helping you conquer faster and in WC runs it is better to have no fort at all... or maybe one far away from all enemies, that will march across half the world to siege it, letting you conquer their whole country in the mean time.

 

[Immutable Mushroom]

Regarding idea groups, I wrote that Quality was OK but was actually thinking Offensive... The most limiting factor in late game wars is siege speed. Defensive is not helping you conquer faster and in WC runs it is better to have no fort at all... or maybe one far away from all enemies, that will march across half the world to siege it, letting you conquer their whole country in the mean time.

Yeah, I meant Defensive in SP in general. It makes the opening moves for WC faster/smoother, since you have a much stronger army. You also have that nice policy with Influence to reduce WE (esp. when you can't get DoTF). It's helpful late-game when you're managing multiple wars because you might not notice / be able to get to a certain fort falling, but I definitely wouldn't take it now. Offensive is way better once you've reached the #1 GP by far stage.

 

[secretchief]

These are all excellent suggestions! I need to get under the skin of Absolutism though. I watched the Reman guide, but need to implement it to get it I think. One immediate question:

I have a vast standing army of national manpower, but as I understand here, I should rather hire and dispand mercs for my armies prior to and after wars? They are horrendously expensive to keep around continuously, aren't they? Also, the reason why I have so many fleets is due to a cumbersome strategy of implementing my armies in many theatres across the world through a large fleet of transports really. Right now with the two Suez provinces, I actually use it as a portage, employing 72 brigs in India and an even larger brig fleet in the Mediterranean.

On the Russian rival, I hadn't actually seen that they have appeared as a rival. That must be within the last months, because just a year before it was Muscovy. That opens up a good and easy arena for PP. On religion, I'm continuously converting to Anglicanism, but it takes some time with so many provinces. And I will advance Francien culture and see what changes. The tariff advisor was more due to the rank and culture than his actual bonus, and having spent 4000 ducats on him to get to +5, I'd rather keep him around.

Thanks for the trading tips @Laurent1944, I will go through an overhaul. So changing a couple of ideas and steam for Absolutism are the main two changes I should go for, along with all the minor ones? What do you mean by "tag-switching" by the way, @Immutable Mushroom?

edit: Hm, I tried to stop collecting at Genoa, Seville and Constantinople, but The English Channel stayed more or less the same, even falling 1 %. I don't see any of the 150 % yet. I moved a merchant to Ivory to collect and move around the other two (lost a couple in my idea reshuffle) to try to increase, but the trade power in the Channel fell 10 % and the amount overall to 161 ducats. I may have misunderstood what you meant above @Laurent1944

editedit: Oh, I see now that even when going back to the previous setup (minus an Expansion merchant) provides way less than 161 ducats (114). I probably lost out to ditching Expansion and Exploration rather than the merchant setup.

 

[secretchief]

Yeah, I meant Defensive in SP in general. [...] Offensive is way better once you've reached the #1 GP by far stage.

What did you mean by SP here. My brain is fried, so can't figure it out right now I have been GP #1 for at least 100 years by now, so should perhaps change to Offensive then? By the way, I have already started changing around, ditching a couple of ideas and moving merchants. I gotta get lower stab to fire the English Civil War now.

 

[Immutable Mushroom]

edit: Hm, I tried to stop collecting at Genoa, Seville and Constantinople, but The English Channel stayed more or less the same, even falling 1 %. I don't see any of the 150 % yet. I moved a merchant to Ivory to collect and move around the other two (lost a couple in my idea reshuffle) to try to increase, but the trade power in the Channel fell 10 % and the amount overall to 161 ducats. I may have misunderstood what you meant above @Laurent1944

You're getting lots of ducats from those 3 places combined. I'd be pretty surprised that only collecting in English Channel could get you more, even with the transfer bonuses.

What do you mean by "tag-switching"

I mean taking a nation formation decision (e.g. "Form Italian Nation"). This requires you to un-state a bunch of British states and change your primary culture to Italian. This gets rid of the English Monarchy IIRC. Of course, you'd only do this after you have a solid economy, so maybe after you conquer the rest of English Channel + most of Genoa. You won't be too hurt by the loss of states if you have high trade income, TCs, and high numbers of mercs (so manpower matters less).

What did you mean by SP here.

Single player.

I have been GP #1 for at least 100 years by now, so should perhaps change to Offensive then?

Nah, don't change it, unless you're really, really overflowing with MIL. It seemed like you were a bit behind in MIL tech from one of your earlier posts?

Like I said, Quality-Religious is a useful policy to make up for the Siege Ability from Offensive, but I do think Offensive is a lot better overall in late-game WC runs (Defensive is better early, Quantity is always solid).

 

[PhoenixG]

These are all excellent suggestions! I need to get under the skin of Absolutism though. I watched the Reman guide, but need to implement it to get it I think. One immediate question:

I have a vast standing army of national manpower, but as I understand here, I should rather hire and dispand mercs for my armies prior to and after wars? They are horrendously expensive to keep around continuously, aren't they? Also, the reason why I have so many fleets is due to a cumbersome strategy of implementing my armies in many theatres across the world through a large fleet of transports really. Right now with the two Suez provinces, I actually use it as a portage, employing 72 brigs in India and an even larger brig fleet in the Mediterranean.

You get the mercs and keep them. It's much better. If you think it's too expensive, that means your eco isn't strong enough. You'll lose lot of men for sieges in the late game, so you can't just rely on your manpower.

 

[SGL3000]

Ok, there is one thing that I haven't seen commented.

In the WC that I did about a year ago, in ~1650 I had to stop everything that I was doing for about 10 years to focus on triggering court and country disaster. Why? Because revolutionary government have less maximum absolutism for being a republic (90 iirc). And in ~1710 I had to stop again around another 10 years to get the revolutionary government.
This 2 things let you conquer sick amounts of lands.

Tips:
-Your only limitation is the mount of money you gain which translates to the amount of troops you pay, about 40% of your army is killing revolts and the rest is smashing countries.
-Thats why is important con secure India money fast, spend all your 1444-1650 in conquering from wherever you are to india, to get enough money to pay as much troops as you can.
-from the day you get the diplomatic technology 22 in which you get imperialism (iirc that happens just before or in early 1700) you Stop spending all diplomatic points in anything but annexing vassals (that's more than 100 years of only using your diplomatic points to annex, and that's a huge amount of land). You go to war vs a big country and take every war around 170-200% overextention of provinces, so you core 99% and create a vassals with cores there or give the provinces to a vassals you already had.

 

[atwix]

I have a vast standing army of national manpower, but as I understand here, I should rather hire and dispand mercs for my armies prior to and after wars?

lategame one should spend manpower only on artillery and the attrition they take, and use full merc front row (with some cavalry if you really have too much manpower pool and/or recovery).

 

[kirell]

lategame one should spend manpower only on artillery and the attrition they take, and use full merc front row (with some cavalry if you really have too much manpower pool and/or recovery).

I think adding 2 cav is still good in late game, since ai stacks often don't have full combat width (=> more flanking, less losses, easier stackwipes). Also, using an assault army for battles with full combat width inf, 2 cav and full combat width cannons really works very well vs. ai: They mostly cannot afford full-width artillery so stackwipes aplenty. Some reinforce inf only army for morale replenishment, and some siege armies (only enough cannons to get siege bonus).

 

[Vulkandrache]

I think adding 2 cav is still good in late game

If you are outnumbering the enemys frontline anyway adding 2 Cav will just make you win harder.
It adds unnecessary micromanagement for negligible gain.

It make its less convenient to split armies down to smaller stacks for carpet sieging and if you ever get into one real battle
you cant just consolidate the army down as you all ways need to keep those 2 extra units in mid.

I found it easiest to just use 52/0/52 stacks, they split nicely into two siege stacks and keep some 20k Inf stacks nearby for extra frontline.

 

[kirell]

If you are outnumbering the enemys frontline anyway adding 2 Cav will just make you win harder.
It adds unnecessary micromanagement for negligible gain.

If i was playing multiplayer, i would agree. In SP micromanagement is certainly still possible and useful. Also for example avoiding war exhaustion & money drain by sieging provinces with 2-unit stacks. Would never do that in multiplayer unless i have already stackwiped his army but in singleplayer one can avoid the extra costs (sure endgame you have money aplenty, but more money still means further above forcelimit & more parallel wars etc., or more plantations in your colonies if they are not already full for even better income etc.)

It make its less convenient to split armies down to smaller stacks for carpet sieging and if you ever get into one real battle
you cant just consolidate the army down as you all ways need to keep those 2 extra units in mid.

I would agree in multiplayer since you cannot pause and have no time to consider, or if you generally like to play it more like RTS even in singleplayer. However, if you are a player like arumba that can spend quality time with the game on pause for half an hour, its no problem...

I found it easiest to just use 52/0/52 stacks, they split nicely into two siege stacks and keep some 20k Inf stacks nearby for extra frontline.

Sound advice, i don't disagree. Maybe adding 2 cav should only be considered midgame (say till 1650), its a personal preference that has a minor benefit but also complicates things.

 

[petertju]

If you are outnumbering the enemys frontline anyway adding 2 Cav will just make you win harder.
It adds unnecessary micromanagement for negligible gain.

It make its less convenient to split armies down to smaller stacks for carpet sieging and if you ever get into one real battle
you cant just consolidate the army down as you all ways need to keep those 2 extra units in mid.

I found it easiest to just use 52/0/52 stacks, they split nicely into two siege stacks and keep some 20k Inf stacks nearby for extra frontline.

I would go for 48/0/48, this gives you an easier splitting (96, 48, 24, 12, 6, 3) or even 32/0/32 (64, 32, 16, 8, 4, 2). The second one is imo the best for carpetsieging in jungles

 

[bly08]

25 cannons give +5 bonus on lv.8 forts, 48/2 = 24.