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Viadro

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Is it possible to become a Coptic HRE Emperor before the league fires?
Im having like - 1000 rep with electors at the moment and I got no clue why.

What conditions do I need to fulfill to become a Coptic Emperor?
If tje protestant win, Im still Coptic and I guess it doesnt change anything for me, right?
 

PhoenixG

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there are two ways. One be catholic and pass the reforms upto Proclaim Erbkaisertum, then swap to coptic or pray that peace of westphalia triggers (fighting the league war, but don't proclaim the dominant faith). The first one you can control it, while the second option not.
 

Viadro

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First one is already out of equasion since Im already Coptic

So now I gotta pray for the league war without imposing any dominant religion? Maybe join the weaker side to balance the powers and make sure none side wins?

If the leagie war doesnt fire and there is the peace of westphalia afterwards, does it help me or not? I do not remember what does this peace embrace exactly.
 

PhoenixG

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The league needs to fire. If it doesn't fire, the catholic side automaticly wins.

Best way would be to join the protestant side, and hope the war fires. During the war, you need to keep the status quo.
 

Dominion

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Becoming coptic before passing Erbkaisertum and forcing Westphalia while also going for WC? Either forget about the peace of Westphalia or your WC. Rest is way too stressful in your first run.

Not like you need emperorship anyways.
 

TheMeInTeam

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You don't even need Coptic. Without very lucky pre-1650 PU of a huge nation I'm not convinced Coptic is actually easier to WC than just staying Sunni especially w/o emperor. For one tag sure due to the extra 10% core cost reduction, but for just meeting WC requirements? I doubt it.

Even for one-tag one-faith I stayed Sunni and had plenty of padding at the end. It just depends how he wants to play it.
 

gia257

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First one is already out of equasion since Im already Coptic

So now I gotta pray for the league war without imposing any dominant religion? Maybe join the weaker side to balance the powers and make sure none side wins?

If the leagie war doesnt fire and there is the peace of westphalia afterwards, does it help me or not? I do not remember what does this peace embrace exactly.
that will take too long, you are better off going catholic for a bit (keep a lot of provinces coptic so you can go back)
 

Viadro

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I know I couold do it with Sunni bit it pisses me off to pay to keep the Piety high.

The Coptic passive is much easier and the obly thing I loose this way are the rulers. I get passives which I dont have to worry aboit, I can RM and ally Europe and try to become an emperror in the meantime withous much hassle.
 

gia257

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I know I couold do it with Sunni bit it pisses me off to pay to keep the Piety high.

The Coptic passive is much easier and the obly thing I loose this way are the rulers. I get passives which I dont have to worry aboit, I can RM and ally Europe and try to become an emperror in the meantime withous much hassle.
you realize you dont have to pay right? out of all tags you annex you release their cheapest province and keep them as an opm, free money, free prestige, free piety/lack of piety
 

bly08

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If you can't finish a straightforward Sunni Ottoman WC you're not gonna do it with Coptic + HRE Ottoman. The HRE mechanic, provided your goal is to revoke, is counter-intuitive to normal WC blobbing. You get relation penalties with prince/voters for being overextended, you have to tie up your diplomats on improving HRE relations. Trying to force Peace for Westphalia will tie up all your resources and time. It's way easier to just blob like a normal WC.
 

Dominion

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Cathoman OF WC is actually a lot easier. Think I got the vassal swarm sometime around 1500 and had them take out France, Poland and Denmark for me whenever I got bored. Rebels aren't an issue either compared to normal vassals because their stacks are small and all vassals storm them immediately.

Gets you tons of dev for free too. Not to mention they convert all that Orthodox and Sunni land for you.

People just usually do it Sunni first because the fewer things you need to learn the easier it gets. At least on your first attempt.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Cathoman OF WC is actually a lot easier. Think I got the vassal swarm sometime around 1500 and had them take out France, Poland and Denmark for me whenever I got bored. Rebels aren't an issue either compared to normal vassals because their stacks are small and all vassals storm them immediately.

Gets you tons of dev for free too. Not to mention they convert all that Orthodox and Sunni land for you.

People just usually do it Sunni first because the fewer things you need to learn the easier it gets. At least on your first attempt.

I think you're confusing "potential for speed" with "ease of doing it".

In the post absolutism end game right now or even in 1.19 times, the late-game problem children are the nations with > 1000 development, which you want to cycle down early once you have 100+ absolutism. A dismantled HRE can be destroyed in short order with a bunch of separate wars.

After a little advice from bly08 I learned that conversions are secondary to just getting the land if you're going for one faith, though certainly quite tedious. Subject spam and cathedral spam can get you there very fast if you're not already close.

Cathoman has a slower opening due to switch time/prestige hit/worse rulers and has to play the HRE game while doing expansion. I expect most players would find this more difficult than 10-15 years extra mop-up tops.
 

bly08

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I did a power run to 1500ish staying Sunni to see how much land I could grab.

20170928092221_1.jpg


20170928092304_1.jpg


1.) Armenia is the only tag in Caucasian group (hostile core creation land) without HCC as tradition. They get +25% coring cost later as NI but you can annex before then. They also have a lot of cores in QQ. If you cut QQ in half they'll get Armenian rebels. Don't feed Caucasus land to Crimea.

2.) Releasing Syria is necessary if you want to take 100% WS from QQ and not have an early coalition form.

3.) The 4v3 mil tech advantage is best spent on Mamluks, they have a bigger army and more forts than QQ.

4.) The soonest you can get to India depends on Timurids RNG, if they vassalize Baluchistan you'll have to wait for a second war with 15 years in between. If Baluchistan is a tributary then India can be bordered much sooner. On the other hand African coast is almost always fragmented, can get to Kilwa with a series of easy wars and get an extra merchant early from the TC. Kilwa also has 4 gold mines.

5.) There's not much point going Religious first. Everyone is Sunni and lack of CCR will be bigger bottleneck than tanking diplo via unjustified demands.

6.) Divert trade on all vassals that own downstream CoTs, don't worry about LB until you're ready to annex.

7.) The sooner you get to Africa/India the more fragmented they'll be. Should spam warnings which I forgot to do.

8.) Not certain on this but it might be best to avoid getting 150 dip from Burghers due to Social Mobility event.
 
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PhoenixG

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837B5E02C8AE539A04F277C299252E5F0A6A1B52


Did more at a calmer pace. At 1505 I didn't even had the east Africa and wasn't in India yet.
Went admin - influence - religious - exploration (will ditch it later). The moment I got religious, I went full on vassal feeding and every admin went into religious.
Pretty much at this moment I'm done with India and start knocking at Ming's door.

Just look at the income difference 80 years later
 

fyfaendeluxe

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eu4_164.png


A similar take, after the age of reformation frenzy there's a lull while building up absolutism. Influence -> Admin -> Humanist -> Quantity. Diplo to follow.
Fezzan is my vassal, mostly to deal with berber HCC, generally I've been coring directly, its just a lot simpler and more straightforward in most cases. Though i did have some luck with ruler admin. Rotating wars, using threaten war in italy and spain to keep AE close to threshold. Almost all dip goes into unjustified demands, but that's fine, dipannexing isn't cheaper manawise with ottoman CCR and i was managing AE-wise. YMMV. Only dip tech 23 matters anyways.
Almost tripled my income since 1550, it skyrockets once you get manufactories across persia and india.

From this point you can one-tag by 1750, likely don't even need to go over 100% OE to do it.
 

Dominion

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After a little advice from bly08 I learned that conversions are secondary to just getting the land if you're going for one faith, though certainly quite tedious. Subject spam and cathedral spam can get you there very fast if you're not already close.

Cathoman has a slower opening due to switch time/prestige hit/worse rulers and has to play the HRE game while doing expansion. I expect most players would find this more difficult than 10-15 years extra mop-up tops.

Yup, conversions are secondary. They're also annoying. Saves you a ton of IRL time.
And you can get more land with the HRE. While you're grabbing whatever you want in the east and south your vassals can take 'unlimited OE', because all you need is a single core to release a new prince which you can then feed.

HRE game will never be played. It's just a matter of blobbing, adding, blobbing, adding and killing your ruler as often as possible.

Got emperor in 1464 and revoked around 1500 in my last Cathoman run on 1.19 (or 1.20? dunno, been a while).

It's more difficult to learn the mechanics, but once you got those down a pre1700 non-Horde WC will suddenly become almost unavoidable and the difficulty level will be similar to annexing Mzab as Tunis.

Regarding rulers, that's kind of an issue, true.
But you save so many MP and so much time, it pales in comparison.

Not to mention that your prestige is permacapped for the whole run anyways. The loss of AE reduction and morale doesn't really matter. Most of your fighting early on will be done by your vassals and later on your rate of expansion exceeds institution spread which means your enemies are usually 3-5 mil techs behind you.

I wouldn't do it again, but it was definitely fun to experiment with. Cathoman was also the first time I ever experimented with rebel conversion, so it'll hold a special place in my heart :)
 

NADster

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Finished my first wc a few weeks ago on my first try with the Coptomans. It was quite easy and I only went over 100 oe once accidentically and also did not hardcore vassalfeed. You should have time enough if you conquer steadily. I even did the one faith in this playthrough.
444EBE2CB75691B749CED520ED9E75732F0F4A1F
FA574595BEEB551DBD95FA91AE2EEDFF337011AD
79CCCAA90E7F514E54AF7A39884A413E7A0D11CB
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04A3BC6BEF68012997CF35FCF6645B921D787386
5055F3190BD259FC3A32AE6A1C297A32677F8D36

Idea Groups:
administrative
diplomatic
religious
exploration
offensive
humanist (only 2 ideas)
quality
no 8th
 

ParagonSaber

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...how? How did you have that much of India in 1586? With expansion almost to the Baltic, almost all of Muscovy, parts of freaking Italy...

Nah. I'm declaring black magic.

Edit: this is @PhoenixG

Edit 2: Though, viewing your screenshots, it can apply to your 1600 progress as well, @NADster.
 

TheMeInTeam

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...how? How did you have that much of India in 1586? With expansion almost to the Baltic, almost all of Muscovy, parts of freaking Italy...

Nah. I'm declaring black magic.

Edit: this is @PhoenixG

Edit 2: Though, viewing your screenshots, it can apply to your 1600 progress as well, @NADster.

No black magic needed for this stuff, not with the Ottomans. Here's another set for benchmarking, Sunni variant:





Yes I'm a scrub lord for this idea progression :D







I got one faith 5 years later in 1787. Lots of wiggle room for non-optimal play with Ottos.