Way too many kids...

[Maleficus]

Now my knowledge of medicine throughout history isn't great (The Romans didn't have soap, but were quite healthy, then everyone started dying at 25 for a few centuries, then some French tit discovered bacteria and now we all live forever, right?) so I'm not sure if it's the birth rate, the infant mortality rate, other factors or a combination of all that's to blame here, but I always seem to end up with too many children. I don't mean 5 or 6. I mean 7, 8, 9, 10. In my Saxony game I have 12 (10 legitimate + 2 not so).

Now this somehow doesn't seem right. Not only am I getting so many children, but in many cases they're all coming from one wife (Unless I'm mistaken, there was a lot of deaths in childbirth in the middle ages, too).

Now, in my opinion, you want one legitimate son to reach adulthood at a minimum. Two is better. Three is excellent. Four is more than enough. Six or seven legitimate sons is more than I know what to do with. I really have no use for more than 3 or 4. And besides it being a bit annoying, it's rather ahistorical, too.

I'm not really all too clued up on how many kids the average German or Spanish noble could expect to have, but it can't have been that different to here in England. Well, I've decided to have a quick look through the wikipedia pages of some of the kings and princes of medieval England to see how many kids they had (I guess it only counts legitimate issue, as Henry I's alleged 20 bastards aren't listed):

William I the Bastard- 4 sons, 5 daughters
William II Rufus - 0
Henry I Beauclerc - 2 sons, 1 daughter (Though wiki fails to list one of the sons)
Stephen - 2 sons, 1 daughter
Henry II - 5 sons, 3 daughters
Henry the Young King - 1 son
Richard I Lionheart - 0
John Lackland - 2 sons, 3 daughters
Henry III - 2 sons, 3 daughters
Edward I Longshanks - 4 sons, 5 daughters
Edward II - 2 sons, 2 daughters
Edward III - 5 sons, 4 daughters
Lionel of Antwerp - 1 daughter
Edward of Woodstock - 2 sons
John of Gaunt - 4 sons, 4 daughters
Richard II - 0
Henry IV Bolingbroke - 4 sons, 2 daughters
Henry V - 1 son
Henry VI - 1 son

Now, by my maths, that's an average of 2.16 sons and 1.78 daughters each, which is itself way below the typical in-game amount, and I haven't even got to the bit where if you look at second, third and fourth sons, the ones who became dukes and earls rather than kings, you'll find that even more of them died childless or with only one or two children, thereby bringing down the average even further.

Now, I know wikipedia isn't the best source for hard fact, but it is a hell of a lot quicker than going down the library, digging out every book on the middle ages and cross-checking it all, and it should be acurate enough to serve the purpose here.

I'm not saying that characters in-game should be restricted to only having one or two sons each, just that something ought to be done to bring the average down a bit, especially bearing in mind the prominent role bastards are able to play in-game, which further reduces the need for spare heirs.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

This won't be changed anymore for CK, lets hope the next game by Paradox will be CK2.

There are somethings you can do to lower the amount of children, create some events that lower the fertility of characters or edit events that leads to the death of children because of poor health.

 

[Maleficus]

This won't be changed anymore for CK, lets hope the next game by Paradox will be CK2.

Oh I hope so, I really, really hope so.

There are somethings you can do to lower the amount of children, create some events that lower the fertility of characters or edit events that leads to the death of children because of poor health.

I've no idea how to do this, but wouldn't this have another problem, namely that it would risk events just firing all the damn time, killing off an entire line for fun...?

Is there some way to simply reduce the base fertility, or to reduce the effectiveness of fertility? Or, for that matter, to not have kids while I'm crusading thousands of miles away (Or do I need to have a word with the milkman about that one?)...


And while we're on the subject of modding stuff, where and how do I edit the lists of names available to each culture, and would doing so adversely affect any current save-games?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Is there some way to simply reduce the base fertility, or to reduce the effectiveness of fertility? Or, for that matter, to not have kids while I'm crusading thousands of miles away (Or do I need to have a word with the milkman about that one?)...

No it is not possible to reduce the effectiveness of fertility

And while we're on the subject of modding stuff, where and how do I edit the lists of names available to each culture, and would doing so adversely affect any current save-games?

Go to Crusader Kings/db/character_names.csv, open it with Wordpad or Notepad and add the names you want (following the format that is shown in the file) then 'save the file as' a .csv-file again.

This will have no adverse effect on your currentgame, but your new nameslist will be used from this moment on.

 

[Count of Reval]

Now my knowledge of medicine throughout history isn't great (The Romans didn't have soap, but were quite healthy, then everyone started dying at 25 for a few centuries, then some French tit discovered bacteria and now we all live forever, right?) so I'm not sure if it's the birth rate, the infant mortality rate, other factors or a combination of all that's to blame here, but I always seem to end up with too many children. I don't mean 5 or 6. I mean 7, 8, 9, 10. In my Saxony game I have 12 (10 legitimate + 2 not so).

Maybe the French kings from respective period were used as prototypes when the base fertility score was calibrated?
Kings and number of their legitimate children (also from Wikipedia):

Philip I the Amorous - 7
Louis VI the Fat - 8
Louis VII the Young - 6
Philip II Augustus - 2
Louis VIII the Lion - 13
Louis IX the Saint - 11
Philip III the Bold - 8
Philip IV the Fair - 7
Louis X the Quarreler - 2
John I the Posthumous - 0 (died as an infant)
Philip V the Tall - 7
Charles IV the Fair - 6
Philip VI the Fortunate - 8
John II the Good - 11
Charles V the Wise - 8
Charles VI the Beloved, the Mad - 12
Charles VII the Victorious - 14

The average number of children is about 8. (Louis VIII had 10 sons.)

 

[Kaleidoscope]

Edward I had between 14 and 16 children by his first wife (Eleanor of Castile), and a further 3 children by his second wife (Margaret of France).

 

[Maleficus]

Maybe the French kings from respective period were used as prototypes when the base fertility score was calibrated?
Kings and number of their legitimate children (also from Wikipedia):

Philip I the Amorous - 7
Louis VI the Fat - 8
Louis VII the Young - 6
Philip II Augustus - 2
Louis VIII the Lion - 13
Louis IX the Saint - 11
Philip III the Bold - 8
Philip IV the Fair - 7
Louis X the Quarreler - 2
John I the Posthumous - 0 (died as an infant)
Philip V the Tall - 7
Charles IV the Fair - 6
Philip VI the Fortunate - 8
John II the Good - 11
Charles V the Wise - 8
Charles VI the Beloved, the Mad - 12
Charles VII the Victorious - 14

The average number of children is about 8. (Louis VIII had 10 sons.)

Right, but several of Louis VIII's children died in infancy, which is a different ball game. I'm just talking about legitimate surviving issue, I.E. those that lived at least to early childhood. Otherwise Edward III (who you'll see I've listed with 9 children, would have 14. While Henry VIII who's well-known for succession issues, would have 8 rather than 3 (Though he's not listed as he came after the timeframe).

So going by that, I guess it's the game's low infant mortality rate that is to blame for the problem, rather than a high birth rate. Guess Paradox are just too squeamish to do accurate history

 

[Maleficus]

Go to Crusader Kings/db/character_names.csv, open it with Wordpad or Notepad and add the names you want (following the format that is shown in the file) then 'save the file as' a .csv-file again.

It's not letting me save as a CSV. Any idea why?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

It's not letting me save as a CSV. Any idea why?

1. Doesn't it let you save the file at all ?

2. Or just not as a csv-file ?

If the first then:
Before opening the file check to see if it is not set to read-only. Do that by right+clicking on the file and select properties. Then you see a check-box, deselect this one.

or
If you have Vista or Windows 7 and you have installed the game under program-files then you must turn of the UAC (or better, reinstall the game under c:/games f.e.)


If second is the case then you need to (in Wordpad/Notepad) select 'save as' and then type in the name of the to be save file as follows: "character_names.csv". So put the name between " ".

 

[Maleficus]

1. Doesn't it let you save the file at all ?

2. Or just not as a csv-file ?

If the first then:
Before opening the file check to see if it is not set to read-only. Do that by right+clicking on the file and select properties. Then you see a check-box, deselect this one.

or
If you have Vista or Windows 7 and you have installed the game under program-files then you must turn of the UAC (or better, reinstall the game under c:/games f.e.)


If second is the case then you need to (in Wordpad/Notepad) select 'save as' and then type in the name of the to be save file as follows: "character_names.csv". So put the name between " ".

Well the only type it will let me save as is .txt but this is on XP, not Vista or 7

 

[unmerged(7537)]

I guess it's just a function of infant mortality being much, much lower in the game than in RL history.

 

[DarthJF]

I guess it's just a function of infant mortality being much, much lower in the game than in RL history.

That and less still births and wives dying while giving birth.

Then again, balancing out something like this is really dificult, and it's better to have too high infant survival rate, than the other way. The game needs people to run after all.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well the only type it will let me save as is .txt but this is on XP, not Vista or 7

Select the option 'save as' and then type in the the name of your saved file between " " so that it reads

"character_names.csv"

See also this part of my first post

1. Doesn't it let you save the file at all ?

2. Or just not as a csv-file ?

If the first then:
Before opening the file check to see if it is not set to read-only. Do that by right+clicking on the file and select properties. Then you see a check-box, deselect this one.

or
If you have Vista or Windows 7 and you have installed the game under program-files then you must turn of the UAC (or better, reinstall the game under c:/games f.e.)


If second is the case then you need to (in Wordpad/Notepad) select 'save as' and then type in the name of the to be save file as follows: "character_names.csv". So put the name between " ".

 

[Sam L]

From a gaming perspective I can see why there's a need for less wives and children to die.

Maybe this could be introduced as differences between difficulties in CK2.

 

[unmerged(84239)]

So going by that, I guess it's the game's low infant mortality rate that is to blame for the problem, rather than a high birth rate. Guess Paradox are just too squeamish to do accurate history

I think only for a smaller percent.


There is an event, I forgot the name, what you get when you are ill. You know 'I would gladly pay to have my health restored'. That wonderdoctor or witchdoctor or I don't know is too efficient. (people leave longer, children are often cured from sickness obtained during infancy)

 

[Rivus]

If they get it wrong, players would complain that their children keep dying and they end up with no viable heir. I think it's OK to have the current "rate" of children.

Maybe more ways to "get rid off" these cousins/children. Permanent monastic exile, for example, or sending them to join some crusading order or somesuch. (i.e. effectively cutting them off from the main family's events and updates).

 

[Harle]

Hopefully in CK2 more factors will play into childbirth and fertility, but I think the real important issue here is that it'd be nice if there was more that could be done with courtiers. Having the seven court positions is nice, but I'm not sure it reflects the full scope of a court's titles and responsibilities.

I'm hoping we'll see the tasks of the seven positions broken up into subcategories, with seven 'necessary' titles as is in CK, and then 21 or so other lesser positions that provide smaller benefits for the demesne, as well as less prestige for the title holder. These wouldn't really be mandatory positions to have full, so a court without all the lesser positions filled wouldn't be at a big disadvantage.

Essentially the positions would exist to give you something to do with your courtiers, prevent them from getting bored and restless, and maybe train them for more prestigious positions.

It might seem like it'd be sort of a hassle, but given the timescale of CK(presuming that doesn't change much), it'd give you something to play with during peacetime. Usually court positions remain filled by the same characters for years and years anyway.

So yeah, reducing the number of children wouldn't really be desirable if there was more to do with your kids other than watch them grow old and bitter.

 

[Nimic]

How many kids is many kids?

My guy, Bohemond de Hauteville, the King of Sicily, now has 15. 8 boys, 7 girls. The two eldest boys died, but I wanted the third one to be the heir anyway, so it all worked out.

It's probably far from the record, but it's the most I've had. And half of them have come while I've been my wife's rival (something that always seems to happen for me; I can't be very romantic).

 

[Padre Pio]

My guy, Bohemond de Hauteville, the King of Sicily, now has 15. 8 boys, 7 girls. The two eldest boys died, but I wanted the third one to be the heir anyway, so it all worked out.

It's probably far from the record, but it's the most I've had. And half of them have come while I've been my wife's rival (something that always seems to happen for me; I can't be very romantic).

Seems like a de javu. At the moment I'm also playing as King of Sicily and eight other kingdoms and my Bohemond, the second king, had 10 children from two wives who, incidentally, were both his rivals. And the most interesting thing is that the rest of his line were not so prolific as he was in making babies. Except for one. Right now I have a second Bohemond who is the heir-apparent to the throne of Brittany and I guess he's got the Bohemond streak as well. He's just 21 years old and he already has 5 sons and a daughter.

It must be the Bohemond name. My guess is that it possesses a kind of "mystical charm" for women, so much so that even when a Bohemond becomes a rival in the public and political scene, they would willingly brave the assassins and other political repercussions just so they could spend a night with him and be able to roll the blessed name in their tongues while in the height of orgasmic pleasure.

"Booo... boo... heeeeeee.... mmmmmmooooooonnnnndddddd!!!!!!" a piercing cry tore the night's golden silence, waking up the king's personal guard from a stolen slumber. A few moments passed by and the silhouette of a woman tiptoed out of the king's bedroom. Before the guard could react, she was gone in an instant, swallowed by the darkness. Fearing for the worst, he rushed to the king's room.

"My lord! Are you alri---"

"I am alright, Sancho my man," the king, who was very much alive and very naked to boot, interrupted him.

"But that was---!"

"The queen, yes." The king cut him off for the second time, waving a hand. "She came here with a poisoned dagger in her bosom, intending to kill me no doubt," he chuckled. "Naturally, I ended up piercing her. . ." he paused, a wicked smile forming on his lips. ". . .with my very own potent dagger," he added with a wink.

 

[Vaximillian]

There just cannot be too many kids, y'know