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unmerged(145825)

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really angry about original creator
Why?

We should just be really grateful by what he and others have contributed to it, they do for free after all. Who can blame them when they decide to quit out of boredom or being lured into new enterprise's?

This mod and beautiful map has really breathed some life into this game for me. Kudos to the creator!
 

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I bought this game once I saw the map of the mod :). The creator did a wonderful job, and if he chose to abandon the project, it's his decision. We can only thank him what he did already. And we can change the mod ourself.

So the proposition is to reduce the research years of early infrastructure technologies?
 

MichaelM

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Yes. I haven't had time for any detailed testing, but it seems like techs in the early game are taking 25-50% longer than the years given in the tech files. Infra (and trade) techs 2 and 3 are the most visible examples.
 

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yes, cutting the costs for the first three infratechs worked for me. with census taxincome this game gets along a lot better.
 

Simone

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well, in for the glory\mods\watkbaoi\db\technologies there is infra.txt.
open with wordpad and you find:

#Infra technologies

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

technology = {
id = 0
average_years = 0 #1337
infra_efficiency = 0.15
}
technology = {
id = 1
average_years = 50 #1387
infra_efficiency = 0.17
}
technology = {
id = 2
average_years = 82 #1419
infra_efficiency = 0.20
#Effects
colonists = yes
}
technology = {
id = 3
average_years = 88 #1425
infra_efficiency = 0.25
#Effects
bailiff = yes
}
technology = {
id = 4
average_years = 113 #1450
infra_efficiency = 0.30
#Effects
luxury = yes
}

the number behind average_years is in relation to the starting dates and defines the base cost which seems to be calculated by some to me unknown formula. the year behind # seems just to be a placeholder or info.

you can play around with the number after average_year. i set it to 25 and 65 for infra 2 and 3 and even put infra 4 to 90 so there would not be such a huge gap.

later i even put the colonists = yes to infra 1 and the bailiff = yes to infra 2. this way i figured it would be more balanced with the ai. a human will anyway just powertech to infra 3 to get the bailiffs. works for me.

as a result i hit infra 2 while full teching infra in 1349 and infra 3 by 1365.
 
Last edited:

Tontonseb

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Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I've changed that file two or three days ago, and I put an interval of 40 years between two infra levels (that is to say 40, 80 and 120 years), and it's better, but still not satisfying. I will try a shorter interval of around 30 years, just as you suggest.
 

Toio

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well, in for the glory\mods\watkbaoi\db\technologies there is infra.txt.
open with wordpad and you find:

#Infra technologies

#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

technology = {
id = 0
average_years = 0 #1337
infra_efficiency = 0.15
}
technology = {
id = 1
average_years = 50 #1387
infra_efficiency = 0.17
}
technology = {
id = 2
average_years = 82 #1419
infra_efficiency = 0.20
#Effects
colonists = yes
}
technology = {
id = 3
average_years = 88 #1425
infra_efficiency = 0.25
#Effects
bailiff = yes
}
technology = {
id = 4
average_years = 113 #1450
infra_efficiency = 0.30
#Effects
luxury = yes
}

the number behind average_years is in relation to the starting dates and defines the base cost which seems to be calculated by some to me unknown formula. the year behind # seems just to be a placeholder or info.

you can play around with the number after average_year. i set it to 25 and 65 for infra 2 and 3 and even put infra 4 to 90 so there would not be such a huge gap.

later i even put the colonists = yes to infra 1 and the bailiff = yes to infra 2. this way i figured it would be more balanced with the ai. a human will anyway just powertech to infra 3 to get the bailiffs. works for me.

as a result i hit infra 2 while full teching infra in 1349 and infra 3 by 1365.
If wanted as an example ...luxury = yes from ID4 to be place in ID1 , is it a matter of just cut and copy
as per below ?


technology = {
id = 1
average_years = 50 #1387
infra_efficiency = 0.17
#Effects
luxury = yes
}
 

Tontonseb

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If you alter the file, you may want to change the text entries in following file as well:
watkabaoi/localization/english/technologies.csv
 

Toio

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Tontonseb

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I'm not sure you should change this. Artillery appears at level 13, supposedly in 1497. Of course, it looks late at first sight, as efficient cannons and bombards (meaning those which could be able to breach fort walls during sieges) were used in Europe starting from around 1415 / 1430. I would even say, if you consider Chinese history, artillery should be available from the beginning. Nevertheless, I think it's better to give an edge only to countries that deserve it, if you think that's not enough, rather than making it available earlier for everybody. As an example, if you put it earlier, I guess that some countries from exotic group, especially if human played, could get it around 17th century, which is not desirable. Of course, you do what you want, as you do it for yourself, and anyway you are much more skilled than I am. Just that I find it interesting to know what you think about that.
 

Toio

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I'm not sure you should change this. Artillery appears at level 13, supposedly in 1497. Of course, it looks late at first sight, as efficient cannons and bombards (meaning those which could be able to breach fort walls during sieges) were used in Europe starting from around 1415 / 1430. I would even say, if you consider Chinese history, artillery should be available from the beginning. Nevertheless, I think it's better to give an edge only to countries that deserve it, if you think that's not enough, rather than making it available earlier for everybody. As an example, if you put it earlier, I guess that some countries from exotic group, especially if human played, could get it around 17th century, which is not desirable. Of course, you do what you want, as you do it for yourself, and anyway you are much more skilled than I am. Just that I find it interesting to know what you think about that.
I am already testing my changes , I moved artillery to year 1450ish ( coincides with the ottoman capture of constantinople ) and seems ok. My other change of assault to land level 3 , has the TUR dominating many, many , many land , I think I will try level 4 for assault.

You seem to know that artillery until about 1480 (in europe) was basically only seige artillery and not field artillery. The earliest record I have for seige artillery is 1453.

To conclude , I might look at artillery to stay as per original placement or around year 1470.
Assaults seem to be the biggest aggressive change for the AI

thanks

PS, I already play with Monopolies and Embargos set much earlier than original. And stability level income to aid the AI is set to 0 at -3, -2, -1............then 2 at 0, 6 at 1, 10 at 2 and 20 at 3........higher than 20 and you rarely see wars
 

Tontonseb

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That's interesting, thank you for your detailed answer. Just one thing about siege artillery: if my memory serves me well, the process of moisturising the "meal powder" was invented in France in 1429, allowing gunpowder to be much more efficient than before, and thus enabling artillery pieces to breach walls. I think England, France and Burgundy used cannons in grouped brigades of siege artillery from that date. But of course, the first stunning example of siege artillery use is the siege of Constantinople in 1453, so that's the best "historical" date for a start.
 

Toio

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That's interesting, thank you for your detailed answer. Just one thing about siege artillery: if my memory serves me well, the process of moisturising the "meal powder" was invented in France in 1429, allowing gunpowder to be much more efficient than before, and thus enabling artillery pieces to breach walls. I think England, France and Burgundy used cannons in grouped brigades of siege artillery from that date. But of course, the first stunning example of siege artillery use is the siege of Constantinople in 1453, so that's the best "historical" date for a start.
Thanks,
my issue with maps which have more provinces than vanilla map is a need to boost something for capturing these extra provinces while still maintaining a slight historical feel.
I tried giving every default leader a +1 and/or +2 to their seige numbers, but this did not improve the aimed result (my thinking) of capturing provinces quicker.
So, moving forward the assault to level 3 land seemed too good for super states, so I now use level 4 land and this seems to achieve better results than the leader change option. I will most likely move artillery ther as well.

I read that the success of frances early campaigns in italy in 1494 was due to their field artillery. this began around 1480 by france and was quickly followed by Venice in 1488, which is why the battle of Fornovo was basically a draw as both sides where scared of each others field artillery. These artillerymen on both sides where so good, that when captured they all had one hand cut off by their captors before any prisoner swaps.
 

Tontonseb

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That's very interesting, I think everybody here will find it very useful to know about your experiments.

Then, yes, the trunnion (a French word) was invented by some Flemisch people in 1450, and first complete carriage was completed in France in 1461. Burgundy and France seem to have been somewhat more advanced on the question than other nations during 15th century. In 1494, for the Italian wars impulsed by Charles VIII, a major country advanced for the first time with a complete and structured field artillery force. I don't know if it was that much used, but it was certainly very impressive. At Fornovo, it seems that the powder was wet because of the stormy summer rain, and artillery could not be used. I didn't know about this story of gunners with an hand cut off. Amazing.
 

unmerged(51332)

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how do you install? I cant fight a guide for it anywhere :S
 

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Indeed, it is fortunately not very difficult. We are assuming that you have installed FTG and patched it through 1.2 version (some distributors like Gamersgate call it 1.02, but that's the same). You have then to use a software able to uncompress archives such as winzip or winrar, and extract the content of the archive WATKABAOIv204.zip in the subdirectory of the game that is called "mods" (if there's none, just create it). Least, you should install the hotfix called WATKABAOI_Fix4_Ultimate.rar, because it is essential to be able to play with the 1.2 version of FTG. The process is a little bit different. It's still an archive whose content should be uncompressed, but this time you're going to extract it directly in the new subdirectory called "WATKABAOI" inside the subdirectory "mods". That's all! By the way, if you enjoy the game, I advise you buy it and register it in the "My Games" part of this forum.
 

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I think that monopolies (and TP's) come too late, it should be on around 1550 (tech 6?) or something like that...
 

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Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I've changed that file two or three days ago, and I put an interval of 40 years between two infra levels (that is to say 40, 80 and 120 years), and it's better, but still not satisfying. I will try a shorter interval of around 30 years, just as you suggest.
I changed mine to 30 year intervals and just hit infra 2 in feb 1387, then hit infra 3 the next month following? What gives? Im sure I only changed the values as described here, Infra 3 cost only 1 ducat?

Any ideas?