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yesyes, it is good for postcount, but a week is to much time for people to change their minds, remember what happened last time Austria was at war with OE... oh yeah, you remember, can't even stop reffering to it, while you never even asked me the tp's back you lost to Spain
deadmeat1471 said:
why did you left then? we can rehost for you AKA saving and then hosting and you can jump in again
deadmeat1471 said:
we all crash from time to time, last session we had 4,5 or 6 rehosts (or maybe just 3, but who's counting)
Back?! Why'd you take 'em if you'd just give them back?? And what does that have to do with people changing their minds?Wari Bana said:
Wari Bana said:
sure, i didnt realise you rehosted, wanted to save ya the effort - its not like the ai can make it any worse than it already is lol :rofl:
Mats_SX said:
well, i never said i wanted to keep them, but since you were obviously completely unable to defend them, as you were the target of intense warmongering from many many misguided enemies, i decided it was in our best interest to keep them in the (Habsburg) family.
We could have negotiated an agreement about these colonies, since Spain considers Austria as a vital strategic partner, but when you refused to repay the loan i granted you, i saw that as the price you asked for the colonies. Let me point out that you had not invested a 1000 golden ducats in these four colonies, so effectively gained from it. I did the same with Italy after the Xhosa-war. I paid R3lic 450 golden ducats in an effort to repair relations, and to make sure my strategical partner would not be hindered in his development. I voubt R3lic had forces worth 450gd in South Africa at the time, even less were killed by me, as he retreated from the region.
What it has to do with people changing their minds is for example: i've been talking to Prussia over and over to end this umpteenth war between our proud nations, but all i get is hints at Prussia trying to include you and/or OE in the fight against particularly Spain. After Spanish betrayal in the Brazilian question, with regards to Austria, we are very concerned to become the victim of such betrayal. I mean when you were at war with OE, France came to your aid. Then the session ended, and somehow the former enemies reconciled, and everyone turned on Austria. That's bad. That's unexpected, and it wouldn't have happened if the session hadn't ended while the war was still going on.
Also, in between sessions, Spain decided to join the Western Alliance, on grounds that it was a protection from the ever-expanding OE. I was not informed of the policy change until right before the war against Austria started, but recognised the possible benefits, and agreed on it. If the session hadn't ended at that time, you would have probably seen Spain joining the war against the Eastern Alliance.
So, i just wanted to say, from that perspective (and i don't have a crystal ball that allows me to see the future) it's game-breaking. You go to war under a certain constellation (like Austria did) and you find yourself in a completely different constellation when the war resumes. Ouch!
Colonel_General said:
don't get me wrong CG, i'm not worried about France, i'm just trying to answer Mats_SX's question.
also, about Prussia, i think it's a bit sad: last session when Martin was being attacked by Poland, he asked for a NAP, i said i would not sign one, but i gave him my word of honour (far more binding than a NAP, in my book ) i would not invade and i haven't. Now i feel stupid and naive, when again a session-end curbed 2 arch-enemies' aggression towards my wealthy, peaceful Empire.
what are you trying to reach?Wari Bana said:also, about Prussia, i think it's a bit sad: last session when Martin was being attacked by Poland, he asked for a NAP, i said i would not sign one, but i gave him my word of honour (far more binding than a NAP, in my book ) i would not invade and i haven't. Now i feel stupid and naive, when again a session-end curbed 2 arch-enemies' aggression towards my wealthy, peaceful Empire.
martmol said:
hehe, i don't know?
for you to change your mind in between sessions
o
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I give squat shit about Habsburg this or that. It doesn't matter if you took them, or if France did, or Italy, OE, Poland or Russia or England or Prussia or Kongo. We had common interests, but you decided to throw it all away and take 2 CoTs from me in a war I could never win. Had I not been at war with 3 out of 5 neighbours I might well have been able to defend the colonies. But you chose the "right" time to take them. But claiming this is just a terrible insult. Why on earth would I want you to take them?Wari Bana said:
1. You never said it was a loan.
2. You gave me the "loan" AFTER you had stabbed me in the back. What do you think?
I had a LOT more than 1000 to GAIN from it. Obviously your image of economics is skewed. If I have an opportunity to gain 1000 and I only gain 200, I have in fact lost 800.
Did you take rich Spice, Tobacco and Sugar provinces? Did you take 2 Centres of Trade?
Came to aid and came to aid. That can be discussed. But generally there's a point. It doesn't prove it's "bad" to end in the middle of a war. It just proves you have to take more things into account.
Which doesn't prove anything but Spain lack of reliability. As soon as an opportunity to stab a former friend in the back comes up, Spain's there to take it.
Ouch indeed. And then you have to live with it. I disagree it's gamebreaking and point out that many many sessions have ended in war over all the countless eu2MP games. And most of those went well. It's all about creativity.
it's very regrettable that you are still not over it, despite all my generousity
i only wanted to see if you were willing to pay it back, you can hardly say i pushed you
The chance that Austria would eventually come to profit of these four particular provinces seemed rather minimal at the time.
only with hindsight can you conclude France did not come to Austria's aid. I'm not trying to prove anything, why would i? i notice it now that it happens to me, that it's something that should be avoided. Can't blame me for wanting to share that insight with my fellow mp'ers...
I can't remember us having any pact or agreement which should have morally or "legally" kept me from doing it. If anything it proves my loyalty towards my allies.
Indeed: ouch. I guess i don't like unfinished business.
Give it back and I will be over it. I can pay the same amount of money back if you want to. This far, "all your generosity" has been extremely limited.Wari Bana said:
Indeed. So don't call it a loan then.
On the contrary! They provide extra merchants and also monopoly opportunity. They are rich provinces and I certainly lost a lot of money from losing the provinces. Why would Austria profit less than Spain? We are the two largest traders in the world. What makes Spain profit more from them?
No, but I can contradict it, seeing as I think it's a faulty "insight".
So why mention those "Habsburg" ties over and over again? Obviously they mean zero to you as well.