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medopu

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1) So no criticism of the game is allowed. Even if future development could be swayed these boards are simply to be a big fan boy?
2) Just as I can not prove that anything was left out because they included water simulation, you can't prove that something wasn't.

why water dynamics though? take an area that actually deals with policies, transport, economy, game engine and point about potentially useless features there because these areas are programming-wise the main culprit of non-inclusion of: day/night, weather, unemployment policies, raw material market and so on, not water dynamics. Water dynamics were done by one person seperately. The main game-developing team focused on city simulation, not water dynamics.

It's great that you complain, but it's as funny as if I started complaining about lack of terraforming and my main culprit would be the inclusion of city-districts. From my point of view that's nonsense, the same nonsense as your culprit of all the games shorcommings: the water dynamics.
 

citysimplayer

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why water dynamics though? take an area that actually deals with policies, transport, economy, game engine and point about potentially useless features there because these areas are programming-wise the main culprit of non-inclusion of: day/night, weather, unemployment policies, raw material market and so on, not water dynamics. Water dynamics were done by one person seperately. The main game-developing team focused on city simulation, not water dynamics.

It's great that you complain, but it's as funny as if I started complaining about lack of terraforming and my main culprit would be the inclusion of city-districts. From my point of view that's nonsense, the same nonsense as your culprit of all the games shorcommings: the water dynamics.

I'm not laying all the blame of all the shortcomings at the feet of the water dynamics. Frankly, I don't know what it takes to include it in the game. However, here is what I assume:

1) Developers are limited by the computers ability to crunch numbers quickly. The more simulation you include, the more of that capacity you use. I'm not a developer or a computer engineer so perhaps someone who knows more can educate me on this topic
2) Simulating water flow and dynamics I would think takes a lot of calculating power and therefore uses up a lot of the available capacity for simulation calculations. If anything it's opportunity lost IMO. Maybe not at launch but there are limits to what they can include. There has to be trade offs. I can't imagine they can include everything they want. If you told me everything they and the customers want is in and the things that are not in fall below the priority of water simulation - ok, but we dont know that.
3) I will submit to you that water simulation is eye candy and I get some people play these games because they like to create pretty pictures. I and others like me play these games for the management aspect and the challenge it takes to keep things running and at the same time create a really cool looking city. Don't get me wrong, I love the graphics, but if this game is simply a painting game then it gets boring real quickly.

The water dynamics - as lovely as they are - I'm assuming suck up a lot of processing power (thus limiting current or future enhancements). And although I'm sure will be really cool for the first hour you play the game, afterwords I suspect wont be noticed that much. So, where do we go from here? I don't know - maybe its just an observation I had that you can either agree or disagree on. I don't expect everyone to have the same opinion as mine - its just my own observation about the game.
Perhaps you are right - the water feature in this game will be the one thing that propels it to the top of all city sims games. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

One last thing - I would agree with you that if you blamed the inclusion of city districts as the reason for no terraforming would be nonsense. City districts in my opinion are much bigger part of the day to day management aspect of the game than terraforming would be.
 
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medopu

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I'm not laying all the blame of all the shortcomings at the feet of the water dynamics. Frankly, I don't know what it takes to include it in the game. However, here is what I assume:

1) Developers are limited by the computers ability to crunch numbers quickly. The more simulation you include, the more of that capacity you use. I'm not a developer or a computer engineer so perhaps someone who knows more can educate me on this topic
2) Simulating water flow and dynamics I would think takes a lot of calculating power and therefore uses up a lot of the available capacity for simulation calculations. If anything it's opportunity lost IMO. Maybe not at launch but there are limits to what they can include. There has to be trade offs. I can't imagine they can include everything they want. If you told me everything they and the customers want is in and the things that are not in fall below the priority of water simulation - ok, but we dont know that.
3) I will submit to you that water simulation is eye candy and I get some people play these games because they like to create pretty pictures. I and others like me play these games for the management aspect and the challenge it takes to keep things running and at the same time create a really cool looking city. Don't get me wrong, I love the graphics, but if this game is simply a painting game then it gets boring real quickly.

The water dynamics - as lovely as they are - I'm assuming suck up a lot of processing power (thus limiting current or future enhancements). And although I'm sure will be really cool for the first hour you play the game, afterwords I suspect wont be noticed that much.

Again and again, you're just guessing.

Two things.
First, so far we can be pretty sure that water simulation hasn't made an impact upon the content of other management aspects of the baseline game. There is no reason to believe that, as i've explained twice before so unless you provide an understandable explanation why it would do so, please proceed.

Second, it hasn't made an impact on gameplay preformance as far as running the game smoothly is concerned. The only ones that should be slightly concerned, are those who barely meet minimum system requirements creating a massive metropolis. Then, there could perhaps be problems.

There are various parts of this game that require quite a lot of processing power. Most notable examples include (factory) smoke emission particles, traffic, simulating individual citizents(pretty obivous) and route calculations and so on.
So if water physics really threatned the CPU bottlenecking so much, so that it would be impossible to include it along with city simulation aspects of the game that developers had time to develop, and intended to create, it would not be included. That is common sense.

If anything it's opportunity lost IMO. Maybe not at launch but there are limits to what they can include

Ok so your last speculation deals with future additions to the game and possible limitation that water physics might force upon the future additions.
Now here is the point where i can honestly say I don't know. And you're making wild guesses too.
In theory at least, it could be true for the future dlcs to perhaps be limited, but that could be 10dlcs it could as well be 100 dlc's. You don't know, i don't know. Even developers can only guess how much they can add before they run into preformance issues.

One thing for certain is, that taking out features that are fundamental to the gameplay is a very uncommon practice. Especially when the game is so late in developement stages as CSL is.
 

Lee Saxon

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I have to agree that with less than a dozen people on the team, having one of them doing nothing but this water simulation when so far it seems like the game has, like, 10 different buildings, is an odd choice. It'll be a cool feature though.
 

KyleJ

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why not delay the release lets say at the end of year but implement night mode along with new buliding and car models

+ modular buildings

Till the end of the year!? you're going to make many enemies with that kind of talk! heh-heh. Although I kind of agree they should probably move into Q2 for release as there are some very easily fixed issues that just require time more then anything (I think) - though this has nothing to do with the perfectly fine water dynamics.
 

ggjono

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just a pie in the sky idea, maybe, just maybe they are going to be making a new game soon heavily involving water simulation.
This could be a bit of a playground for that. Why just test the water on a random test program. Why not test it while incorporating it into the game to add some extra interest?
I could be completely wrong but to me that's how it looks.
 

KyleJ

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just a pie in the sky idea, maybe, just maybe they are going to be making a new game soon heavily involving water simulation.
This could be a bit of a playground for that. Why just test the water on a random test program. Why not test it while incorporating it into the game to add some extra interest?
I could be completely wrong but to me that's how it looks.

Nah, I don't think so, I highly doubt Cities Skylines is a test-bench for water physics.. CO have said themselves they intend to be working on this game with the community for a long time after release, releasing feature patches and expansion/DLCs. Colossal Order also said that this is a dream game for them, something they've been wanting to do for a long long time, as said in their latest video, so I doubt they're using the game to test features.
 

medopu

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why not delay the release lets say at the end of year but implement night mode along with new buliding and car models

+ modular buildings

Because CO is not an independant developing team. They have publishers that dictate by contract, when to release the game.

This is also a guess.

I've played quite a few games myself where i met the minimum system requirements and not recommended system requirements. In none of them did i ever encounter any preformance issues if I adjusted graphics settings accordingly to the strength of my computer.
I'm pretty sure it's a safe bet to assume the same applies for Cities skylines.