Was WWII A Necessary and Justified War?

[Adamgerd]

Like everywhere else. On paper mostly.
In fact minorities were submitted to the strong czechization.

Like they weren't submitted to your beloved countries' hungarization, which was 10 times worse and sure the pole minority was assimilated, but that's because we were at war in that time. And what about the other minorities (Slovakia, Ruthenians). And in what did Poles have a better situation in the A-H. After it's collapse they became independent as Poland. Austria-Hungary meanwhile didn't have even have protection of minorities on paper unlike Czechoslovakia and if you seriously believe Austria-Hungry had great minority laws and that Hungary was justified totally 100% in the first Vienna award and was reasonable, then well. I do concede though that if we accept self-determination as a right, then Hungary was slightly justified. However Hungary lost WWI, it lost WWI. So of course it's going to lose land. Losers always lose land. IMO, I don't even understand why it kept so much land after losing the war and expected to regain former land

 

[pithorr]

I never said that there was no polonization or hungarization as well, but your mythologizing of Czechoslovakian paradise is just ridiculous. And I don't know on what basis did you calculate that 10 times rate

 

[Adamgerd]

I never said that there was no polonization or hungarization as well, but your mythologizing of Czechoslovakian paradise is just ridiculous. And I don't know on what basis did you calculate that 10 times rate

What mythologizing? The truth, that Slovaks and Ruthenians wanted to join Czechoslovakia or that it had the best minority rights in the world in the 30's or that A-H had bad minority rights

 

[pithorr]

OK, live in your own world.

 

[Adamgerd]

OK, live in your own world.

So which part of the above statement do you think is false? Slovaks and Ruthenians did want to join, It did have the best minority rights in the 30's. Don't forget in the 30's minority rights were much lower than today and A-H did have bad minority rights. I can give you sources for all of these statements fi you want

 

[wingo]

Best is a very broad term, especially when used globally. Best in the world - do you really know minority rights, both on paper and in reality, of each and every country in the world of the period to be so sure? I don`t think anyone would argue (or at least argue much less) if you just said above average, good, or even best in the region at the time

 

[Adamgerd]

"
The first of these guarantees to all Czechoslovak citizens, without regard to race, language and religion, full equality before the law, full civil and political rights, free use of any language in private, commercial, religious and public life, and the right to use their own tongue before the courts. Article 8 guarantees to linguistic minorities the right to found their own philanthropic, religious and social institutions and schools, using their own languages. Article 9 points out the duty of the government to establish minority schools in towns and districts containing a large number of inhabitants using a tongue other than the Czech."
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/arti...1927-10-01/minority-rights-czechoslovak-state

Also, well ok No, I don't know them of each and every country, but it is among the best, if you compare it with South African apartheid, German anti-semitism, US anti-black rights, USSR anti-capitalism, Poland's anti-ukraine, Hungary's ethnic minorities, etc.

Also, in fact Hitler did the Munich conference quickly, because he was worried that if he prolonged it, Czechoslovakia might keep giving more and more rights until, he wouldn't have any claim any more to protect germans

 

[Dracolithfiend]

I would say yes. Sure, some argue Nazi Germany started it. However if you really think about it the Allies started it by standing by their guarantee to Poland. Many people say it was a bad war and not necsarry. But either they made a stand at Poland or they would have to give up their European dominance to Germany. So I would argue it was a neccesary and Justified war

Edit: Lots of people think I am justifying the war or that I think the west started a. war. No, I am saying that world war 2 was started by the west as by aiding Poland they turned a regional war into a world war, thereby creating WW2

No, I am arguing that the west was in the right in 1939 as Germany started a war, but they escalated it into a world war and so technically they started the world war by not betraying Poland

That is a very skewed view of history. Quite absurd and filled with alternative facts.

 

[Adamgerd]

That is a very skewed view of history. Quite absurd and filled with alternative facts.

So you think the west was wrong in helping Poland that it should've betrayed Poland?

 

[Dracolithfiend]

So you think the west was wrong in helping Poland that it should've betrayed Poland?

Either your translation to English is garbled or you are blaming Britain and France for Germany invading Poland thus starting WW2.

For the record nobody in their right mind feels the allies should have acted any later then just before the Munich agreement if not sooner. With the power of hindsight we now know how this turned out.

 

[Adamgerd]

Either your translation to English is garbled or you are blaming Britain and France for Germany invading Poland thus starting WW2.

For the record nobody in their right mind feels the allies should have acted any later then just before the Munich agreement if not sooner. With the power of hindsight we now know how this turned out.

No, I am saying Germany started a war, by invading Poland. Britain and France had earlier guaranteed Poland and by honoring the guarantee they joined on the side of Poland, thus making it a world war. Until that point it wasn't a world war yet as Poland isn't a great power

 

[Dracolithfiend]

by honoring the guarantee they joined on the side of Poland, thus making it a world war.

The guarantee was enacted on March 31, 1939.

The German invasion of Poland occurred on September 1, 1939.

Germany knew a war against Poland would be a war against France and Britain. It was a world war the moment Germany marched into Poland. While technically true that Britain and France didn't "declare" war until September 3rd you are at best splitting hairs. Technically Germany declare war on Poland at all therefor by your distorted logic Germany fought a defensive war. See the problem?

 

[Adamgerd]

The guarantee was enacted on March 31, 1939.

The German invasion of Poland occurred on September 1, 1939.

Germany knew a war against Poland would be a war against France and Britain. It was a world war the moment Germany marched into Poland. While technically true that Britain and France didn't "declare" war until September 3rd you are at best splitting hairs. Technically Germany declare war on Poland at all therefor by your distorted logic Germany fought a defensive war. See the problem?

No, I am saying Germany thought an offensive war and a defensive world war. Also in fact Germany was partially surprised that the west would honor their agreements as after Munich they bassicaly thought the west will no longer honor an agreement

 

[Easy-Kill]

No, I am saying Germany thought an offensive war and a defensive world war. Also in fact Germany was partially surprised that the west would honor their agreements as after Munich they bassicaly thought the west will no longer honor an agreement

They also thought that certain races were superior to others. Are you saying that the Nazi's were right?

 

[Adamgerd]

They also thought that certain races were superior to others. Are you saying that the Nazi's were right?

No, I am not saying the Nazi's were right!

 

[PacificRidge]

I would say yes. Sure, some argue Nazi Germany started it. However if you really think about it the Allies started it by standing by their guarantee to Poland. Many people say it was a bad war and not necsarry. But either they made a stand at Poland or they would have to give up their European dominance to Germany. So I would argue it was a neccesary and Justified war

Edit: Lots of people think I am justifying the war or that I think the west started a. war. No, I am saying that world war 2 was started by the west as by aiding Poland they turned a regional war into a world war, thereby creating WW2

I would say the war was caused by how harsh the treaty of Versailles was. Germany lost everything and more. Was it just for Germany to retaliate in such a way, I think not.

 

[SorelusImperion]

They also thought that certain races were superior to others. Are you saying that the Nazi's were right?

The Nazis also thought Building streets might be benefitial. Areyousaying that the Nazis were right ?

 

[Dracolithfiend]

Also in fact Germany was partially surprised that the west would honor their agreements as after Munich they bassicaly thought the west will no longer honor an agreement

This is totally incorrect. Just before the Germans started an offensive world war Hitler was told by the Italian ambassador, the Polish ambassador, the British ambassador, the French ambassador, the American ambassador, the Generals Staff, and his cabinet along with a great many other people that he would be starting a world war. He clung to a far flung fantasy that maybe the British and French might not answer the call to arms. However he accepted that it was virtually certain to happen in the weeks before his invasion. You are essentially mixing up his convictions months before with his realizations just prior to.

Once again you are trying to play a game of technicalities. Your argument is probably based on Hitlers speech just before the war where he both claimed that he didn't think they would defend Poland and, in the same speech, announced that the start of the destruction of England has begun. Hitler was a notorious liar and you would have to be a fool to take every word in his speech as his sincere belief. This was a man who invaded half a dozen countries he had guaranteed and broke two non aggression pacts.

I am done replying to you as you have driven this discussion around semantics twice now.

 

[Easy-Kill]

No, I am not saying the Nazi's were right!

Let me explain. Germany invaded Poland under full knowledge that it was in a defensive alliance with two other world powers.

You are suggesting that as Germany believed that the UK and France would not honour this agreement, then Germany can be absolved of guilt for starting a world wide conflict, resulting in the deaths of tens of millions of people.

And you wish to be taken seriously?

 

[Easy-Kill]

The Nazis also thought Building streets might be benefitial. Areyousaying that the Nazis were right ?

The Nazis are always wrong