Warscore Issues - Intended or a Bug?

[exogeologist]

I'm playing the beta branch, and seeing some surprises in warscore calcs. I'm curious if I'm seeing something new or if it's been this way for a while.

Specifically in Total Wars, the warscore doesn't move when planets or systems are conquered. Yes, you instantly gain ownership, but I can eat up 2/3s of an enemy's empire and the warscore doesn't budge. But if I shoot down 10 of his troop transports it jumps a couple percent. Call me crazy, but I'd sure rather lose a few transports than entire planets and systems.

Related, in any war (Total or otherwise) I've noticed that when I invade a heavily fortified planet (e.g. an FE), I'll lose several % warscore from the deaths of my armies. But my opponent loses 0%, even if I've entirely destroyed his garrison. Also seems reasonable that losing 50 armies should exhaust the populace, esp if the planet was conquered anyway and they died for nothing.

Depending on if y'all say this is normal or a bug, i'll drop this in the appropriate forum.

 

[KingAlamar]

The same issue existed (exists) in 2.2.2 and maybe 2.2.3. I recall claiming a few Awakened Empire worlds [War in Heaven] and I almost went to 100% exhaustion from just claiming a couple of crazy-defended planets. They had as many or more losses than I did and took 0% warscore from it.

 

[exogeologist]

The same issue existed (exists) in 2.2.2 and maybe 2.2.3. I recall claiming a few Awakened Empire worlds [War in Heaven] and I almost went to 100% exhaustion from just claiming a couple of crazy-defended planets. They had as many or more losses than I did and took 0% warscore from it.

Did you notice the same issue with Warscore for Total Wars, where claiming planets and systems didn't impact the score at all?

 

[Zergor]

While it seem to be an oversight I don't really mind.
The fact that your planets are seized by a genocidal empire should not reduce your determination to fight them, on the contrary.
Losing the troops that would allow you to fight back on the other hand...

 

[JNF]

I think you are confusing the meaning between War score and War exhaustion, two entirely different mechanics. War score is how well you are doing (can I conquer enough stuff to force status quo while I hold enemy systems) and exhaustion is just that, YOUR will to continue fighting. Rack up too much exhaustion and your people just get tired of the war and want out (ie Iraq).

However I always wondered how a Robot gets exhausted and tired of something. The most rudimentary robot of them all, my toaster, never gives up making toast. It would make toast 24/7 if I let it.

 

[KingAlamar]

Did you notice the same issue with Warscore for Total Wars, where claiming planets and systems didn't impact the score at all?

War in Heaven is a total war -- the CB is the same one you have when you declare against fanatic purifiers and other threats.

 

[exogeologist]

However I always wondered how a Robot gets exhausted and tired of something. The most rudimentary robot of them all, my toaster, never gives up making toast. It would make toast 24/7 if I let it.

Determined Entoastenator

 

[exogeologist]

I think you are confusing the meaning between War score and War exhaustion, two entirely different mechanics. War score is how well you are doing (can I conquer enough stuff to force status quo while I hold enemy systems) and exhaustion is just that, YOUR will to continue fighting. Rack up too much exhaustion and your people just get tired of the war and want out (ie Iraq).

Yes, my expectation is that in terms of winning a war and/or pushing for status quo, planets and systems changing sides should be impacting that. Deaths of ships and armies should drive exhaustion. It's crazy that I can take 2/3 of an enemy's territory and not force a status quo.

Also, when Total Wars resolve with Status Quo, the messaging (when it's a war you're not involved in) is something like "nothing's changed sides" which is patently false. I'd prefer if the message was accurate and said "side A gained these systems, side B gained these others" so that I know at a glance if the war had any real impact or not.

 

[exogeologist]

War in Heaven is a total war -- the CB is the same one you have when you declare against fanatic purifiers and other threats.

Yes, but that's basically what I'm asking. Do Total War CBs never count planets and systems that change hands? Cause that just seems silly. Yes, I should probably have to conquer their entire empire to get a full surrender, but "status quo" is really anything but.

 

[Promethian]

The loss of defensive units doesn't increase exhaustion. Its probably the only advantage of using them since the ones we build on stations are weak and expensive. At least they don't give the opponent any kind of advantage. This is why taking the FE's super defended system cost you dearly but barely budged them. All those defensive stations don't count.

 

[AlanC9]

Yes, but that's basically what I'm asking. Do Total War CBs never count planets and systems that change hands? Cause that just seems silly. Yes, I should probably have to conquer their entire empire to get a full surrender, but "status quo" is really anything but.

What good would it do to count what's changed hands in a Total War? Claims don't matter, nobody's ever going to surrender, and a Status Quo simply means that everybody halts in place and keeps whatever they control.

 

[beckermt]

WAI.

 

[Badesumofu]

There is no occupation in a total war and hence no war exhaustion from occupation.

The mechanic makes sense as long as you keep in mind that it's not warscore. It's war exhaustion.

 

[DrFranknfurter]

Seems like two issues. Not sure how important either is, and you'd have to be careful not to mess things up by tinkering with them carelessly. Any change to war score could have unintended consequences in early game or late game wars. That said I would like a clearer UI and more information (but I'd like better UI in other areas first if I could pick and choose priorities).

The War screen is completely useless in total wars:
There are 3 buttons that are all a little broken.
1 makes you lose the game
1 can never be pressed (they will never give up as far as I'm aware)
1 button doesn't tell you anything useful, always saying nothing changed despite lots changing (as taking a system isn't registered by the system, so it can't be given any sensible exhaustion/occupation/whatever values).

I'd remove the two useless buttons and replace the SQ with a single "END WAR" button that shows you the systems that have changed hands since the war began. (Current SQ, modified with better information). Either that or add new buttons that actually do something in total wars (e.g. Give up territory, Enforce neutral zone - using the claim system to mark systems at no cost)

Armies haven't been properly integrated or balanced in the war system:
Defensive armies don't count at all, bombing and unleashing xenomorphs doesn't bother people
Offensive armies are worth a ridiculously large amount.

I'd have the value of armies scale just like corvettes scale with fleet capacity.
Each army could have a value (both offensive and defensive) that is divided by empire population (and number of armies this population can support). This could then be modified by species rights and strata (slaves are worth less score). Defenders could have a reduced value (x0.25) as people are more understanding of losses incurred during defensive battles than troops sent to die on foreign worlds.