Warsaw Uprising event.

[Oscu]

....The Warsaw Uprising 1944 was indeed something that gave the Germans some trouble, it took them two months to put an end to it.

63 days as I recall, but remember the situation. If germany wasn't losing, the Polish wouldn't has stated the uprising and if germany had reasonable reserves, it could have been dealt with much faster. Russians would never have helped the uprising, because it was totally aganist their goals.

Did Soviet leadership at the time know there was even going to be an East-Germany? Allies could have managed to be at Berlin by Christmas after all.

Well the name East-Germany or whatever is insignificant, but they wanted whole Germany. Allies then again believed when Stalin said that he would not attack Berlin, so I doubt that allies would have proceeded to East-Germany even if they had the chance. (read Anthony Beevor, Berlin 1945)

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I'd hope HoI2 could deal with events of this nature as part of some all-new 'resistance' system.

 

[unmerged(26691)]

as I said you are all trying very hard to make it as much complicated as possible. If all the events took all the possibilities into account (of if it would have happened if such and such stuff was going on) Paradox would have to only concentrate on events for a very long time - so for the sake of the game lets keep it simple.
Should I give more examples of why vichy might not have happen? How many other things should be taken into account before an event happens.
As to the 100 units it was just an example - maybe we should write foolish Vichy event (or any other) - just for the sake of it not always being correct. Do we want to go on about this? Anyways as Coppernicus said CORE has the event so in can be implemented if somebody wanted to script all the conditions.

F

Really, event scripting is easy, especially if you have an event creator tool, which I assume Paradox has. With the tool, stupid bugs like missing }s are pretty unlikely, and you can make a few triggers, like Russia occupying certain provinces or Warsaw being garrisoned in a few minutes.

 

[GrimReaper]

63 days as I recall, but remember the situation. If germany wasn't losing, the Polish wouldn't has stated the uprising and if germany had reasonable reserves, it could have been dealt with much faster. Russians would never have helped the uprising, because it was totally aganist their goals.

Agreed.

 

[unmerged(26642)]

63 days as I recall, but remember the situation. If germany wasn't losing, the Polish wouldn't has stated the uprising and if germany had reasonable reserves, it could have been dealt with much faster. Russians would never have helped the uprising, because it was totally aganist their goals...

Well, I agree.
The strategic situation of the uprising in Warsaw:
for Polish: very important: self-liberation (same as Tito`s partisans)
for Germans: very little importance: the supply lines to eastern front had to be hold free
for Russians: a Polish gouvernement they didn`t want (maybe at the same time Russian Armies had outrun their supplylines after that huge advance from Bjelorussia to Poland)

Big German problems in summer 44 were: rebuilding of Heeresgruppe (Armygroup) Mitte, saving France after allied outbreak of Normandy, saving Heeresgruppe Kurland (Nord), saving the Italian front...

 

[GrimReaper]

Just thought about another thing to consider in case of an Warszaw Uprising event fires: how will/should the Russian AI respond? Will they grant assistance to Poland or will they make a halt and just watch what happens?

Rather important I would say, or...?

 

[Orthank]

Just thought about another thing to consider in case of an Warszaw Uprising event fires: how will/should the Russian AI respond? Will they grant assistance to Poland or will they make a halt and just watch what happens?

Rather important I would say, or...?

I think that SU should have automatic military access to Polish territory (during liberating).

 

[MaximusII]

Yea, the Poles blamed the Allies for not helping them... if it was in the game, i think it would be pretty useless... it would have to be only a couple of Militia devisions, and they would be crushed.... I dont really see a point, unless there is a chance for Poland to succed.

Well who said that Germany (or are we talking about the USSR right now? :wacko: ) have any troops in Warsaw???

 

[GrimReaper]

I think that SU should have automatic military access to Polish territory (during liberating).

Yes, that sounds natural; but should they make use of it?

IRL they did not want to have an independent Polish regime in Warsaw, so they did nothing to stop the Germans from wiping them out.

 

[Tachikaze]

As noted before, Anthony Beevors "Berlin" is a very good guide to how much of an issue Poland actually was both for the Allied and the Soviets. Whereas the Brittish supported the Polish government-in-exile and (especially Churchill) suspected Soviet motives when "liberating" Poland, the Americans simply wanted to apeace the Soviets to make the finishing of the war in Europe a quick affair to be able to re-direct focus to the Pacific. The Soviets during this stage arrested thousands of "counter-revolutionaries", many of which were Polish resistance fighters who often knew all too well the Soviets weren't going to give them freedom if so the war depended on it. It's quite safe to say Stalin had it in for the Poles, and the country suffered for it...

On a completely different note, I have actually had the Warsaw Uprising happen to me during a CORE game as the SU, and it was extremely annoying since the German garrison had just returned from the adjacent province after being beaten by my glorious Red Army, so, naturally, they were wiped out since they had 0 org... At this time, the Germans had little or no other troops in the area, which meant that the Poles could expand three provinces (west and southwestward) before I could encircle them... Now, since the Polish were in the Allies, I couldn't simply DOW them, and yet they were an extremely annoying obstacle in my advance, one that the Germans for some reason refused to deal with... (Though they might've been scared by the mighty Polish militia who annihalated about 16 german divisions after just one hours of struggle. )

Anyway (this is getting way too long), I hope that it is included in HoI2 anyway, since it is (like in reality) a very real problem, especially as the Soviet commander, considering mostly the future of Poland, but also your invasion route.

[/Rambling]

 

[unmerged(26642)]

...Anyway (this is getting way too long), I hope that it is included in HoI2 anyway, since it is (like in reality) a very real problem, especially as the Soviet commander, considering mostly the future of Poland, but also your invasion route.
[/Rambling]

That is a CORE-Problem (if somebody want play CORE, always the event file to be check and lot of events to be delet :rofl: ).
For Hoi 2: less events are more

 

[Orthank]

Yes, that sounds natural; but should they make use of it?

IRL they did not want to have an independent Polish regime in Warsaw, so they did nothing to stop the Germans from wiping them out.

I see it as follow: liberating Poland governament should be neutral (part of Allies) if Warsaw Uprising would work (i.e. Germany was unable to recapture/lost Warsaw) it should push Poland to democratics if failed to communists. There should be also an option for Poland if liberating by Soviets to switch alliance and join Comintern (if government would be left side ofcourse).

 

[GrimReaper]

I see it as follow: liberating Poland governament should be neutral (part of Allies) if Warsaw Uprising would work (i.e. Germany was unable to recapture/lost Warsaw) it should push Poland to democratics if failed to communists. There should be also an option for Poland if liberating by Soviets to switch alliance and join Comintern (if government would be left side ofcourse).

Yes, sounds reasonable.

 

[boromir]

That is a CORE-Problem (if somebody want play CORE, always the event file to be check and lot of events to be delet :rofl: ).
For Hoi 2: less events are more

Oh no, the more events the better ... its always easier to delete stuff later than to add it in.

I do not like the CK approach of no events!

 

[Tachikaze]

Oh no, the more events the better ... its always easier to delete stuff later than to add it in.

I do not like the CK approach of no events!

Seconded, I want some way of simulating important historical events that the diplomacy model can't handle. If it will be able to do such stuff in HoI2, fine, untill then, I want events!

 

[GrimReaper]

Seconded, I want some way of simulating important historical events that the diplomacy model can't handle. If it will be able to do such stuff in HoI2, fine, untill then, I want events!

I feel this is the one excuse for using events: if nothing else works

 

[unmerged(12303)]

Oh no, the more events the better ... its always easier to delete stuff later than to add it in.

I do not like the CK approach of no events!

yes definately. Although events should not be made that can tip the balance too much. They should be suttle.

F

 

[Oscu]

I think that SU should have automatic military access to Polish territory (during liberating).

I think Soviets should be considered hostile to Polish. Maybe an event giving Soviets the option to wipe out Polish and then event for allies to consider it DoW aganist allies.

 

[Orthank]

I think Soviets should be considered hostile to Polish. Maybe an event giving Soviets the option to wipe out Polish and then event for allies to consider it DoW aganist allies.

Hostile as long as Poland is not "socialists/comunists". But military acces is a must.

Event may be, not a science fiction that it was close to war between Western Allies and USSR.

I also like if there are more events in game, but please follow the topic.

 

[unmerged(28212)]

I think Soviets should be considered hostile to Polish. Maybe an event giving Soviets the option to wipe out Polish and then event for allies to consider it DoW aganist allies.

That's probably the best way to solve this.

A little offtopic; Correct if I'm wrong but wasn't it the 60th aniversary of the Warsaw Uprising here some weeks ago . Came in my mind when I read this thread.