It would be nice if such event appear in new HoI. Is there a place for it in HoI2? What do other think?
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Many events could be added, and this one would definitely be one of the more interesting.
It is, however, not difficult to make such an event for HoI1 yourself. The question would be how to handle a succesful uprising, since that would make it a lot harder for the USSR to puppet Poland.
It is, however, not difficult to make such an event for HoI1 yourself. The question would be how to handle a succesful uprising, since that would make it a lot harder for the USSR to puppet Poland.
I'm not sure that event will be implemented, or if it will then it will not be very historical.
The reasons is that the revolt are still a political question between Poland and Russia, and everything with any trace of endlösung will be cut, no discussion.
The reasons is that the revolt are still a political question between Poland and Russia, and everything with any trace of endlösung will be cut, no discussion.
Mork said:
"endlösung"?
Mork, you are obviously mistaking 1943 Ghetto Uprising with 1944 Warsaw Uprising... :wacko:
Yea, the Poles blamed the Allies for not helping them... if it was in the game, i think it would be pretty useless... it would have to be only a couple of Militia devisions, and they would be crushed.... I dont really see a point, unless there is a chance for Poland to succed.
Should be in HOI 2 such events or better not?
For the Warsaw `44 event (=>5 Pol mil units will be placed there for example)
if
* Poland is annexed (Warsaw is occupied by Germany)
* Germany and CCCP at war,
* Germany is weak (no Rom, Paris, London and so on)
* adjacent provinces are (mostly) occupied by CCCP
* German units in Warsaw are weak < 5 divs (more or less)
Lot of questions:
Who is defender who is attacking?
What would happen if Poland got Wasaw back?
A new event: Poland is created again?
Would be Poland independent or a russian puppet?
What would happen after russian troops would join the battle Ger vs Pol?
Who would got Warsaw after that fight?
Would Stalin let Poland stay independent (Poland = russian influence sphere)?
Or would be a new war Allied vs CCCP for Poland?
A lot of ????
For me: no need for such an event. Sorry
For the Warsaw `44 event (=>5 Pol mil units will be placed there for example)
if
* Poland is annexed (Warsaw is occupied by Germany)
* Germany and CCCP at war,
* Germany is weak (no Rom, Paris, London and so on)
* adjacent provinces are (mostly) occupied by CCCP
* German units in Warsaw are weak < 5 divs (more or less)
Lot of questions:
Who is defender who is attacking?
What would happen if Poland got Wasaw back?
A new event: Poland is created again?
Would be Poland independent or a russian puppet?
What would happen after russian troops would join the battle Ger vs Pol?
Who would got Warsaw after that fight?
Would Stalin let Poland stay independent (Poland = russian influence sphere)?
Or would be a new war Allied vs CCCP for Poland?
A lot of ????
For me: no need for such an event. Sorry
peter jocsak said:Should be in HOI 2 such events or better not?
For the Warsaw `44 event (=>5 Pol mil units will be placed there for example)
if
* Poland is annexed (Warsaw is occupied by Germany)
* Germany and CCCP at war,
* Germany is weak (no Rom, Paris, London and so on)
* adjacent provinces are (mostly) occupied by CCCP
* German units in Warsaw are weak < 5 divs (more or less)
Lot of questions:
Who is defender who is attacking?
What would happen if Poland got Wasaw back?
A new event: Poland is created again?
Would be Poland independent or a russian puppet?
What would happen after russian troops would join the battle Ger vs Pol?
Who would got Warsaw after that fight?
Would Stalin let Poland stay independent (Poland = russian influence sphere)?
Or would be a new war Allied vs CCCP for Poland?
A lot of ????
For me: no need for such an event. Sorry
jeez why do you complicate things that can be kept simple... - just add an event which happens when the russians are next to warsaw & germany is at war with russia and occupies warsaw. Effects would be that the germans lose the equivelent of 10 000 troops in manpower (like they did in reality) and maybe some supplies. It shouldnt be a major event like MR.
easy.
F
Fiendix said:
Not so easy. If the Wehrmacht occupies Warsaw with 30 or 60 divs, would be an uprising? After paratroop landings by Russian (human) player next to Warsaw, but Moskwa, London and Washington are taken by Germans, would be an uprising? No no no
Please no Warsaw Uprising in Vanilla HOI. (There are mods...
)
Interesting proposals, well i was thinking that Warsaw's Uprisnig might look as follow:
1. Germany is weak (as for example France is free and Russian troops are next to Warsaw) and losing the war.
2. There are no big German forces in Warsaw(no units or max. one division) even for a while a day or two days (enough to start uprising).
3. As German are only occupying Warsaw they should be counted as attacker, polish fighters are inside the city mixed with civilians - and Germans are not prepared for such operation.
4. Polish troops should be represented only as some millitia divisions (there were about 50 000 fighters).
Question about Poland government is ofcourse very problematic, but what i was thinking is that Soviets or Allies that are reaching Polish territory should also liberate Poland (only some territories should be counted as Polish i.e. Warsaw, Cracow, Lublin, Lodz). The Poland is one and government type depence on diplomatic actions of alliances, so if Soviets decide to get Poland into Comintern they need to influence/coup it, the same for allies if thay want to keep it in their sphere of influence.
I think that in HoI Polish situation was simplified very much. We have to remeber that in 1944/1945 Soviet troops were liberating Poland from German ocupation they wer not going to annex it. This is not represented in HoI although i don't know why .
These are only proposal it's not that i want to have Warsaw uprising event, i'm just wondering what does other think about that.
1. Germany is weak (as for example France is free and Russian troops are next to Warsaw) and losing the war.
2. There are no big German forces in Warsaw(no units or max. one division) even for a while a day or two days (enough to start uprising).
3. As German are only occupying Warsaw they should be counted as attacker, polish fighters are inside the city mixed with civilians - and Germans are not prepared for such operation.
4. Polish troops should be represented only as some millitia divisions (there were about 50 000 fighters).
Question about Poland government is ofcourse very problematic, but what i was thinking is that Soviets or Allies that are reaching Polish territory should also liberate Poland (only some territories should be counted as Polish i.e. Warsaw, Cracow, Lublin, Lodz). The Poland is one and government type depence on diplomatic actions of alliances, so if Soviets decide to get Poland into Comintern they need to influence/coup it, the same for allies if thay want to keep it in their sphere of influence.
I think that in HoI Polish situation was simplified very much. We have to remeber that in 1944/1945 Soviet troops were liberating Poland from German ocupation they wer not going to annex it. This is not represented in HoI although i don't know why
.These are only proposal it's not that i want to have Warsaw uprising event, i'm just wondering what does other think about that.
peter jocsak said:Not so easy. If the Wehrmacht occupies Warsaw with 30 or 60 divs, would be an uprising? After paratroop landings by Russian (human) player next to Warsaw, but Moskwa, London and Washington are taken by Germans, would be an uprising? No no no
Please no Warsaw Uprising in Vanilla HOI. (There are mods...
really you want to overcomplicate life. Would vichy happen IRL if britain had parts of german (which can happen in HOI?). Currently the conditions are:
Code:
trigger = {
control = { province = 527 data = -1 } # Paris
lost_national = { country = FRA value = 25 } # At least 25% of national provinces lost
random = 25
OR = {
control = { province = 915 data = FRA } # France controls Vichy
control = { province = 915 data = GER } # Germany controls Vichy
}
war = { country = GER country = FRA }
NOT = {
OR = {
year = 1942 # Year < 1941
event = 2021
war = { country = GER country = SOV }
puppet = { country = VIC country = GER }
puppet = { country = FRA country = GER }
}
}
}you cant take into account all the possible conditions. The uprising could still happen even if there are over 100 units in warsaw. Lets not get too boiled down with details...
furthermore we are talking for HOI2 not HOI.
F
Fiendix said:
It would absurd to think that Polish would commit suicide (strong German presence, no allied presence in nearby provinces, Germany winning). After all Polish weaponry consisted mostly of pistols (most of them disposable single shot) so even militia was FAR superior in both training and equipment.
Furthermore looking at the objectives of Soviets it would be unthinkable for them to have western or independent Poland between them and East-Germany. Soviets did not intervene with Polish uprising, because from their point of view Germans saved them the trouble of doing it themselves. Of course they still had lot of purging to do for the next 60 years.
Oscu said:
Did Soviet leadership at the time know there was even going to be an East-Germany? Allies could have managed to be at Berlin by Christmas after all.
Oscu said:
Sorry, but you have mistaken 1943 Ghetto Uprising with 1944 Warsaw Uprising... :wacko:
But it's not the point - I see a lot of people that got no idea about events scripting discussing if it's easy or not.
It's not really that complicated, C.O.R.E. got Warsaw Uprising event since version 0.6 and it works just fine (most of the players never seen it triggering - which proves, that it not fires when conditions are wrong ).But what events will find it's way to vanilla HoI2 is whole different story. Ultimately, it's Paradox decision.
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The 44 Warsaw uprising was, by itself not a great challange for the Germans (the Pole had the equivilant to a couple of lightly armed, irregular divisions), but seen in the context of advancing Soviet armies and the potential for allied resupply or (if you are a paranoid German general) paratrooper reinforcement.
In the game context, I would really like to see the event. If there is a titanic struggle on the Eastern front with the S.U. slowly pushing towards Berlin, the sudden apperence of 5 militia division could make life very exciting. Do you pull back your armoured reserve to take care of it, know that the militia could be nothing compared to the next Soviet thrust? Also, maybe if the Germans do not start to deal with the uprising, more militia divisions could appear in Poland, escalating the problem. The could be events the give the allies or S.U. options to try and help the uprising. This would add a lot of historical flavour to the game.
In the game context, I would really like to see the event. If there is a titanic struggle on the Eastern front with the S.U. slowly pushing towards Berlin, the sudden apperence of 5 militia division could make life very exciting. Do you pull back your armoured reserve to take care of it, know that the militia could be nothing compared to the next Soviet thrust? Also, maybe if the Germans do not start to deal with the uprising, more militia divisions could appear in Poland, escalating the problem. The could be events the give the allies or S.U. options to try and help the uprising. This would add a lot of historical flavour to the game.
Fiendix said:
Yes for HOI terms, there must be an event for French surrender: if Paris has fallen and there is no hope for France - as historically.
But you are right, it is a very good question what should happen if Allied Forces has conquered big parts of Germany. The event should be changed: every core german province must also be in german hands for Vichy event.
[/QUOTE]...The uprising could still happen even if there are over 100 units in warsaw. Lets not get too boiled down with details...[/QUOTE]...
Ok, than you should called YOUR event: "Foolish Polish Harakiri". I`am sorry.
[/QUOTE]...furthermore we are talking for HOI2 not HOI.F[/QUOTE]
Thanks for remember, but in that forum I am always talking about HOI=HOI 2
as I said you are all trying very hard to make it as much complicated as possible. If all the events took all the possibilities into account (of if it would have happened if such and such stuff was going on) Paradox would have to only concentrate on events for a very long time - so for the sake of the game lets keep it simple.
Should I give more examples of why vichy might not have happen? How many other things should be taken into account before an event happens.
As to the 100 units it was just an example - maybe we should write foolish Vichy event (or any other) - just for the sake of it not always being correct. Do we want to go on about this? Anyways as Coppernicus said CORE has the event so in can be implemented if somebody wanted to script all the conditions.
F
Should I give more examples of why vichy might not have happen? How many other things should be taken into account before an event happens.
As to the 100 units it was just an example - maybe we should write foolish Vichy event (or any other) - just for the sake of it not always being correct. Do we want to go on about this? Anyways as Coppernicus said CORE has the event so in can be implemented if somebody wanted to script all the conditions.
F
Strange some people mistakes Warsaw Uprising with Gettho Uprising other says Foolish Polish Harakiri, some are laughing according to Polish headquater's plans to drop Paratroopers brigade to help Warsaw - but it's not the point.
According to sinlge shot rifles - perhaps there were some, but there were also other weapons like tanks destroyer Hetzer or 2tanks Panther type G or most famous home made panzer wagon Kubus .
There are many examples in game that other countries have some special events as for example Vichy event then Free France event, or Install Tiso in Slovakia, or Independent Croatia - how about Poland? After Poland falls there is no Poland till end of the game, i find it odd.
Also question was is there a place in HoI2 for Warsaw Uprising event. I mean was the scale of uprising enough to implement it in HoI2 - as a strategy game.
According to sinlge shot rifles - perhaps there were some, but there were also other weapons like tanks destroyer Hetzer or 2tanks Panther type G or most famous home made panzer wagon Kubus
.There are many examples in game that other countries have some special events as for example Vichy event then Free France event, or Install Tiso in Slovakia, or Independent Croatia - how about Poland? After Poland falls there is no Poland till end of the game, i find it odd.
Also question was is there a place in HoI2 for Warsaw Uprising event. I mean was the scale of uprising enough to implement it in HoI2 - as a strategy game.
My 2 cents: I have always felt, at least to a degree, that events is a way of shoehorning the game into historical timelines. I do realise they are useful from time to time; ie when a certain condition is met, then something is bound to happen.
It would be great if one could, for example, create the M-R pact via Diplomacy or otherwise instead of letting an event handle it. I get the feeling that much of this will be handled i HoI2.
The Warsaw Uprising 1944 was indeed something that gave the Germans some trouble, it took them two months to put an end to it.
It would be great if one could, for example, create the M-R pact via Diplomacy or otherwise instead of letting an event handle it. I get the feeling that much of this will be handled i HoI2.
The Warsaw Uprising 1944 was indeed something that gave the Germans some trouble, it took them two months to put an end to it.