Wars declared on your colonies should be treated like they are declared on you

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Travis_Bickle

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Hi,

In my current France game, I was fighting a very pesky GB and the Ottomans in a war. GB had a huge Thirteen Colonies (like bigger than their size when they declared Independence) and I was worried about British influence gaining anymore. My strategy was to let PLC/Russia beat up the Ottomans with two of my stacks to guide them, whilst I would focus my attention on having a full occupation and naval blockade of GB until their war exhaustion hit 20 and the Thirteen Colonies would declare independence.

That happened. The war was a huge success. We cut the Ottomans down to size and ate the bottom half of GB. Thirteen Colonies (now Florida) then declared Independence and I funded them.

The problem was, I unleashed a beast. They instantly had the third biggest army in the game (behind me and Russia) and rivalled me. They started attacking my colonial nations in Mexico, Louisiana and California. I was unable to enforce a peace because frankly, I wouldn't have won. So I just kept growing in Europe till they could no longer rival me. After that, we became allies and I thought that was that.

The problem is, they still keep attacking my colonial provinces to the point I'll lose the Merchants. There's almost nothing left. I cannot even enforce peace now because we are Allied/RM'd. If they are directly attacking my colonies it should be an attack on me. I don't think it makes much sense that they can totally wipe my presence in the Americas right and I can't even respond because we're allied or in a truce.

Strategically, I now know that I shouldn't have let them grow any bigger than when they first got independence. I also realise I should have let my PU Castile do more colonising before I integrated them. But...I still think this is an aspect of the game that doesn't work. With the prospect of losing all my colonial merchants and presence in the Americas, I would 100% go to war however a drain of resources but I can't because of the alliance/RM/truce.
 
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MK1980

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there's a game rule that countries with their capital in the americas are allowed to directly attack colonial nations without calling in the motherland. without that rule playing native american civs or former colonies would be kinda pointless since the colonizers would eat your land and you'd have 0 chance to ever take it back since the motherland would just stomp you into the ground.

considering that there were some recent changes wrt former colonial nations in 1.30 and i think there are also some planned changes for natives in 1.31, it's rather unlikely that the devs would remove that rule.
 
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Maxxie42

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It certainly is a shame what happened forr you on that specific game, but this rule is definitely a good thing for the game overall. Without it, indigenous nations in the Americas would be even more screwed than they already are.

For your game, if you really care a lot about your colonies, it's not too late to break the alliance and attack the Thirteen Colonies. It's only a 5 year truce, and there's a lot of land to eat there for 0 overextension and negligible aggressive expansion.
 
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Republic of Mercury

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It certainly is a shame what happened forr you on that specific game, but this rule is definitely a good thing for the game overall. Without it, indigenous nations in the Americas would be even more screwed than they already are.

For your game, if you really care a lot about your colonies, it's not too late to break the alliance and attack the Thirteen Colonies. It's only a 5 year truce, and there's a lot of land to eat there for 0 overextension and negligible aggressive expansion.
What should be fixed is that:

a) You should always be able to enforce peace on nations attacking your colonies, regardless of if you have a truce, and
b) You shouldn't be able to attack your ally's colonies.
 
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Travis_Bickle

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What should be fixed is that:

a) You should always be able to enforce peace on nations attacking your colonies, regardless of if you have a truce, and
b) You shouldn't be able to attack your ally's colonies.

This is basically all I am asking for. It seems fair. If the Thirteen Colonies/Florida want to eat my land, fine, but the fact they're about to wipe me out of Mexico without me being able to enforce peace is very harsh imo.
 
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iClipse

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What should be fixed is that:

a) You should always be able to enforce peace on nations attacking your colonies, regardless of if you have a truce, and
b) You shouldn't be able to attack your ally's colonies.

Seems logical. I'm surprised this isn't yet the case. They should follow roughly the same rules as tributaries regarding defensive diplomacy.
 
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John_DeVries

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I thought you couldn't attack an ally's colonies. In fact, I'm pretty sure that as a player, when playing in the Americas, I was not allowed to declare on colonies whose overlord I was allied with. Sounds like a bug: report it.
 
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Travis_Bickle

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I thought you couldn't attack an ally's colonies. In fact, I'm pretty sure that as a player, when playing in the Americas, I was not allowed to declare on colonies whose overlord I was allied with. Sounds like a bug: report it.

It's not a bug, or at least I highly doubt it. The game still treats Florida as though they are a colonial nation, even though they have full independence and are a world power. Therefore they are able to go wild no problem. I think the second a colonial nation gets independent they should stop being seen as a colonial nation.

And I mean, to be fair, in all my hours I've never seen a colonial nation this powerful. I created a beast lol.
 

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It's not a bug, or at least I highly doubt it. The game still treats Florida as though they are a colonial nation, even though they have full independence and are a world power. Therefore they are able to go wild no problem. I think the second a colonial nation gets independent they should stop being seen as a colonial nation.

And I mean, to be fair, in all my hours I've never seen a colonial nation this powerful. I created a beast lol.
It's not about being a colonial nation. Any nation with its capital in a colonial region can attack colonial nations without the overlord being called in.
 
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It's not about being a colonial nation. Any nation with its capital in a colonial region can attack colonial nations without the overlord being called in.
Oooooh, is Salish going to eat Portuguese Mexico as soon as we colonize our way to them ;)

I've been thinking, wouldn't it be better to enable this rule only for a human player, if they're concerned with natives gameplay? I mean it wouldn't be the first time to have different standards for AI and human (ie difficulty setting, luck etc).
 
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