< ! Warned by is broken.

[ScaryRhinoNoodles]

I've tried to do several overthrows of Ming and Ottomans, and <! Warned by is broken and happens 100% of the time. It completely stops any expansion attempts and stales game play significantly.

With the Ming, sometimes you can wait it out and watch it explode. That's 100% boring game play and takes 1000% longer. Admitting to defeat, I can't trudge the 5 hours to watch it explode and make my moves.

But doing the Ottomans, Hero's Welcome is not possible as there is not going to be an implosion. And a 100% chance for a stomping by 1500.

With both scenarios, I usually get Declared on by 1500.

I'm at a loss and any advice is welcome.

 

[Parapluman]

For ming simply become a tributary until you are strong enough to withstand the onslaught that is the Celestial throne.
As for Ottoman, Reman made a great guide yesterday.

Edit: Darn forgot how to HTML again.
Edit2: nvm

 

[Sian]

remember, Warnings only work if you attack someone the one warning have a border with ... Expand away from them (or find a way to get into war with your targets via their allies)

 

[ScaryRhinoNoodles]

For ming simply become a tributary until you are strong enough to withstand the onslaught that is the Celestial throne.
As for Ottoman, Reman made a great guide yesterday.

Edit: Darn forgot how to HTML again.
Edit2: nvm

Awesome advice, but Reman is what inspired to to try and overthrow the Ottomans.

At the start of the game, they simply <! Warn me and I can't expand. So the only choice I have is allies. Hungary always starts off with -20 and then will simply have too many Diplo and won't ally.

Mamluks will Ally but won't go into aggression. I can't offer land to them because I don't have the expansion. So going to War with Ottomans when they butt up against Byz is impossible.

I tried 10 different times, with Karaman, until I have simply realized I can't do it.

Trying to do the Manchurian Candidate results in the same. Ming <! Warning me, then Declaring on me shortly there after.

 

[Parapluman]

Not sure if this was in an expansion, but can you manually set your attitude toward the ottomans as threatened? This might give you a boost in relation to ottoman rivals.

 

[ScaryRhinoNoodles]

Not sure if this was in an expansion, but can you manually set your attitude toward the ottomans as threatened? This might give you a boost in relation to ottoman rivals.

I cannot. It must be tied to an expansion. I cannot offer allies land, so those are probably tied into the same expansion.

 

[PhoenixG]

I cannot. It must be tied to an expansion. I cannot offer allies land, so those are probably tied into the same expansion.

You need Cossacks DLC for that.

 

[Fanstar1]

I cannot. It must be tied to an expansion. I cannot offer allies land, so those are probably tied into the same expansion.

do you have art of war?

 

[Nwaij]

This thread might have some ideas for you.

 

[ScaryRhinoNoodles]

This thread might have some ideas for you.

Yeah, can't offer allies land. Mamluks only become a Defensive Ally, and Ottomans Warn before 1446.

I'd have to DOW no CB on Dulk, and Ramazan. Then, there is still the issue of getting Mamluks out of a Defensive Ally.

You should not be able to Warn countries you have a Truce with, only way to fix it.

 

[Fanstar1]

Yeah, can't offer allies land. Mamluks only become a Defensive Ally, and Ottomans Warn before 1446.

I'd have to DOW no CB on Dulk, and Ramazan. Then, there is still the issue of getting Mamluks out of a Defensive Ally.

You should not be able to Warn countries you have a Truce with, only way to fix it.

ramazan doesn't border ottomans

 

[durbal]

Warnings last too long and don't break during the duration. Kinda annoying that a country can warn another, then in the span of the 15 years or so they become un-warn-able but the warning stays.

At least change their duration to 5 years or something.

I wish guarantees and warns (and diplo slots in general) were revamped but hopefully that's on the list of things to do with the next DLC.

 

[DS_McWerp]

Ramazan is your target. Attack them, vassalize all their allies. Ottomans cannot defend them.

If you want to start with a no cb war before you get warned byz is the best target.

If you remember what month the warning ends you can just declare before they can earn you again.

 

[DS_McWerp]

Also they can’t defend someone they are at war with. When they attack dulkadir/AQ you do too and snipe the sieges from them.

 

[durbal]

Warns last 20 years. In that time a country can easily double in size.

Warnings are broken. Reduce them to 5 years. Hell, 10 would be fine-ish.

If you don't agree, you should play Georgia or a Georgian minor and watch the great gameplay as you rush to avoid QQ's warning that forces you to stare at the screen for 20 years of game time. Fun stuff.

 

[bly08]

Unless I'm missing something I don't see how trucebreaking the Ottomans as Karaman when the truce ends in 1450 can be good under any circumstance. I thought it was a joke at first but he was serious and advocated doing it on very hard. 74 AE from trucebreaking alone and -3 stab/+ 5 WE before getting tech 4.