Warhammer 40K Mod: Twilight of the Imperium

[panther-anthro]

As an old 40k player and someone who has dabbled somewhat into modding Paradox titles before I would like to join.

As to the representation of the Imperium.

• What if you turn it into a "federation", split into each Segmentum with the Segmentum Solar providing the Emperor as current president, if the Emperor can be made immortal there won't be any issue with control switching to the other members.

• Furthermore the Adeptus Ministorum and Mechanicus should be split too and function as vassals of the according Segmentum.

• It might be even better to turn some Sectors into vassals as well.

That would allow you to represent the decentralised and highly differentiating natur of the Imperium for one and make it not to overpowered for another.



The relation to Psykers and AIs could fit better into Edicts than anything else, traits might be used for some of these e.g. Chaos alignment.

The biggest problem I see is the aforementioned research. Tau are no issue and the Dark Mechanicus is known to develop, modify and incorparate daemonic powers into their equipment. The Imperium might use anomalys as STCs and Tyranids could use combat "debris" to simulate unit redesign as with the zoantroph, but what about El

We had similar thoughts but it depends on if we can get a set map or not that works in the way we'd like. I sent a PM about joining up if you want.

Heretic! You do refer to Holy Terra by its true name in your map! *Storm Bolter dakkadakkadakka*

But seriously, would be excited to play this.

It's a placeholder until we get a better map.

 

[plyuto528]

I know this is a bit early to ask, but I would love to help you guys test the mod when you are at that stage of development .

 

[Thaseus]

I sent a PM about joining up if you want.

I would appreciate that, though you will hear from me tomorrow, I should really go to bed.

 

[Genusaus]

• What if you turn it into a "federation", split into each Segmentum with the Segmentum Solar providing the Emperor as current president, if the Emperor can be made immortal there won't be any issue with control switching to the other members.

• Furthermore the Adeptus Ministorum and Mechanicus should be split too and function as vassals of the according Segmentum.

• It might be even better to turn some Sectors into vassals as well.

That would allow you to represent the decentralised and highly differentiating natur of the Imperium for one and make it not to overpowered for another.

One pressing issue from what I've noticed regarding federations is that they rotate a federation fleet amongst each other, so the titular head wouldn't be an issue as you mentioned, but I'm a bit worried about rotating the fleet. At the same time, federations allow for the highest tech from all participating nations to be used in fleet ships--this quite properly simulates the contribution the Adeptus Mechanicus gives to the Imperium--but I'm not certain if it outweighs the issue regarding rotating fleets.

The relation to Psykers and AIs could fit better into Edicts than anything else, traits might be used for some of these e.g. Chaos alignment.

That sounds like a reasonable solution. I'm curious to see what modifiers are available for edicts.

The biggest problem I see is the aforementioned research. Tau are no issue and the Dark Mechanicus is known to develop, modify and incorparate daemonic powers into their equipment. The Imperium might use anomalys as STCs and Tyranids could use combat "debris" to simulate unit redesign as with the zoantroph, but what about El

Yes. From a lore perspective the Imperium shouldn't really be allowed to discover new research, but there needs to be a balance between lore and gameplay design that essentially demonstrates that technology is being "re-discovered" in the form of STCs.

 

[panther-anthro]

Not to mention redisocvery of tech and there ARE new weapons that are used by the imperium in the sense that Imperial Knights and Mars use weapons they didn't used to use.

 

[Genusaus]

Panther:
Which non-human races do you see as being playable, and which ones do you see as being handled via event or crisis?

...

There are also a lot of races interspersed throughout the lore that could be useful when current galactic information seems insufficient--such as the Slaugth and the Thyrrus.

 

[Wolfshield156]

I gave it much though, and I think any W40k mod for Stellaris must take two important issues into consideration.
Completely different value systems in both universes. Optimism vs Pessimism
Stellaris is a game centered on stuff research, exploration. Progress, however you define it depending on your values. Game is ultimately optimistic, and all its mechanics are centered about it.
Warhammer40k is about war, despair, decay, trying to stave off the ultimately inevitable horrors. Pessimistic universe. There would have almost no research. Adeptum Mechanicus would occasionally uncover lost technology, but to improve existing design would be heresy. Same thing with most other factions. Technological stasis. That means major feature would be effectively cut from the game.
Secondarily, number of players. There would be less than 8 playable empires, unless one would successfully jury-rig federation system to play as subfactions.

So, here is my concept to reconcile W40k lore with Stellaris gameplay:
Imperium of Man and most of other Major Factions, like Eldar and Necron, would be unplayable a Fallen Empires. Large and powerful, but ultimately stagnant and doomed to eventual decay. Other Factions like Tyranids and most of Orks and Chaos Marines would be randomly spawned marauding menaces (like space amoebas), but stronger, capable of depopulating planets after defeating their defenses.

Most playable civilisations would be lost Human colonies, far away from borders of the Imperium. Left on their own devices, they developed their own culture, technology and ethos system, though they would be under constant threat of Imperial Crusade.
Other than Humans, as far as playable races go, there could be slightly more civilised Ork warbands and slightly less crazy Chaos Cultist groups, which managed to organise enough to be actual full-fledged playable civilisations, offshoots of Eldar who actually started to rebuild their civilisation and colonise planets. Tau Empire could be playable as it was portrayed, but playable Tau offshots would make sense as well.

In other words, one would play as an offshoot of major factions, not major factions. Because almost all canonical major factions would be unplayable without completely butchering the lore.

Some of late-game threats would be: Awakening of God-Emperor, Arrival of main body of Tyranids, Awakening of Necron.

THIS^ I feel like playing as one of the major factions(except maybe the tau) would be a major mistake in this game. While playing as of lost human colony getting back their feet or new species among a universe of giants would be a interesting thing to do. Though I might be biase because I want to play a human faction that doesn't fit within the imperium rule, with their own religion, culture, and ideas. Even it isn't a main focus of this mod, it certainty would be a nice option. I can even think of a few species traits that can be use

warp disconnection- This Race seems to have at best a very weak connection to the warp and it's forces.- If possible, this shouldn't allow them to research or gain pyskers at all, and slow them down if they use warp travel, but also reduce the events relating to the warp and deamons.

Warp conditioned- This Race has particularly strong connection to the warp and it's forces- the opposite of warp disconnection, they have better speed in warp, and will either start out with pyskers or will soon gain them, but are more likely to attract deamons than others races.

Though without knowing what all the species traits in base game are, I rather not put a lot efforts in trying coming up with traits unique for the 40k universe.

Also, a lot people seem to think that warp is only way to get around in 40k universe, but there are at least two methods I know of. Each are also cover by methods of travel in the base game. Hyperlanes and webways would be very similar, they aren't exactly the same, but they close enough to each other that wouldn't be a huge difference. While remember hearing that Necrons use Wormholes, which while not exactly the same as one in the base game, would close enough that I don't think anyone would really care. So you do this mod, keep this in mind.

 

[panther-anthro]

THIS^ I feel like playing as one of the major factions(except maybe the tau) would be a major mistake in this game. While playing as of lost human colony getting back their feet or new species among a universe of giants would be a interesting thing to do. Though I might be biase because I want to play a human faction that doesn't fit within the imperium rule, with their own religion, culture, and ideas. Even it isn't a main focus of this mod, it certainty would be a nice option. I can even think of a few species traits that can be use

warp disconnection- This Race seems to have at best a very weak connection to the warp and it's forces.- If possible, this shouldn't allow them to research or gain pyskers at all, and slow them down if they use warp travel, but also reduce the events relating to the warp and deamons.

Warp conditioned- This Race has particularly strong connection to the warp and it's forces- the opposite of warp disconnection, they have better speed in warp, and will either start out with pyskers or will soon gain them, but are more likely to attract deamons than others races.

Though without knowing what all the species traits in base game are, I rather not put a lot efforts in trying coming up with traits unique for the 40k universe.

Also, a lot people seem to think that warp is only way to get around in 40k universe, but there are at least two methods I know of. Each are also cover by methods of travel in the base game. Hyperlanes and webways would be very similar, they aren't exactly the same, but they close enough to each other that wouldn't be a huge difference. While remember hearing that Necrons use Wormholes, which while not exactly the same as one in the base game, would close enough that I don't think anyone would really care. So you do this mod, keep this in mind.

Actually humans are the only race who can be born 'immune' to the warp they're called blanks and one of the types of assassins is a 'blank'. I think it's possible to genetically modify people to become immune to psykers/the warp as well if I remember reading correctly. Not sure if we could make this a tech or something but it would be interesting.

The idea of a warp disconnected or warp connected race is fairly interesting. But, I don't know if there's really a good example for this of an entire race having this trait that is? There's races with a warp affinity though.

Necrons using wormholes is a great idea!

Webways are interesting, but I view the webway as similar to how the game handles hyperlane travel and I would make Eldar/Dark Eldar default to this.

 

[Wolfshield156]

Actually humans are the only race who can be born 'immune' to the warp they're called blanks and one of the types of assassins is a 'blank'. I think it's possible to genetically modify people to become immune to psykers/the warp as well if I remember reading correctly. Not sure if we could make this a tech or something but it would be interesting.

The idea of a warp disconnected or warp connected race is fairly interesting. But, I don't know if there's really a good example for this of an entire race having this trait that is? There's races with a warp affinity though.

Necrons using wormholes is a great idea!

Webways are interesting, but I view the webway as similar to how the game handles hyperlane travel and I would make Eldar/Dark Eldar default to this.

Well the names where something I just split balling, and I thought the Tau didn't have a very strong connection to the warp( except maybe for the etherals), It is one the reasons why they can use a lot their tech, and why they got to "jump" rather then staying in the warp when traveling. But traits related to warp are must anyway, if you ask me. Plus didn't I say webways=hyperlanes.

Edit" I also think necrons don't have a connection to the warp, but it may have more to do with them being "soulless" machines. I can't remember for sure though.

 

[panther-anthro]

Well the names where something I just split balling, and I thought the Tau didn't have a very strong connection to the warp( except maybe for the etherals), It is one the reasons why they can use a lot their tech, and why they got to "jump" rather then staying in the warp when traveling. But traits related to warp are must anyway, if you ask me. Plus didn't I say webways=hyperlanes.

Edit" I also think necrons don't have a connection to the warp, but it may have more to do with them being "soulless" machines. I can't remember for sure though.

Yeah, you did but we actually internally had this discussion internally as a team so that was neat!

Technically Necrons are modified from their base form.

What do you think of having the minor races that are not playable armies in 40k tabletop as pickable species? There's a fair number that we can make available and that wouldn't detract from the games over-all vision in my opinion.

 

[Wolfshield156]

Yeah, you did but we actually internally had this discussion internally as a team so that was neat!

Technically Necrons are modified from their base form.

What do you think of having the minor races that are not playable armies in 40k tabletop as pickable species? There's a fair number that we can make available and that wouldn't detract from the games over-all vision in my opinion.

I guess it would really depend on how moddable the game is. It might be even if I download and play the mod(something I'm planning on doing), I would still be able to do a custom start which would allow me to my own thing. Which is probably be the case most likely anyway. But it would also be nice to play as some of minor factions that I only hear mention here and there, and conquer the galaxy with them. I am totatally for it.

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

I'd have thought that if you have a rotating presidency of the Imperium between the various sector governors, then that would be quite an elegant way of representing the dysfunction and power struggles amidst the High Lords of Terra.

Another idea: instead of scientists, have inquisitors.

Mechanically, scientists in Stellaris do two things: investigate anomalies and work on semi-randomised card draws. Investigating anomalies is good Inquisitorial stuff.

As for the semi-random card draws, those are flavoured by the game as being "research" but the mechanic could easily be used for anything else. Really, all they are is a length of time (altered by the skill of the person working on it) after which something happens.

I suggest that the "something happening" at the end be an event which switches off the timer of another event happening. That way your research is a race against time to prevent something (usually something deeply unpleasant) from occurring. These can be flavoured as sinister xenos/daemonic/heretical conspiracies.

The "research" minigame then stops being about working as fast as you can to develop sparkly pink lasers, and starts being about working as fast as you can to unearth the secret of the Black Sun of the Calixis Sector before it's too late. This fits the Inquisition perfectly.

The gameplay we've seen thus far, where they didn't have enough scientists to do all the things they wanted to do at once, makes this even more appropriate.

 

[blallo]

scientists must be replaced by rogue trader, no other way around that.

i think that if the imperium is rappresented as a federation, then it's not a geographical federation but a more strange one.
the federation should be composed by administratum, mechanicum,church (can't remember english name) and imperial guard/navy domains.

 

[panther-anthro]

scientists must be replaced by rogue trader, no other way around that.

i think that if the imperium is rappresented as a federation, then it's not a geographical federation but a more strange one.
the federation should be composed by administratum, mechanicum,church (can't remember english name) and imperial guard/navy domains.

This is assuming again that we can get a pre-set map like CK2/EU IV have. I'm really... not thinking that's a safe bet yet. If we can get a definitive answer at some point from one of the paradox staff that would help clarify a lot of questions. IE can you pick nations from a pre-set map or is it just a pre-set star map.

 

[blallo]

well, i mean, the worst case scenario is that the mod comes with a save file, isn't it?

 

[panther-anthro]

well, i mean, the worst case scenario is that the mod comes with a save file, isn't it?

Eh..... actually I would rather use a lot of in-game start up events, and various other things in order to forcibly rail-road certain things. It's just going to take a lot of editing to make it so the random generator gives proper governments for AI races for instance. IE you don't want Orkz with human government types and the same for Tyranids. Although, we're probably going to have some events around Genestealer Cults as I have a few neat ideas for that!

I actually think it's possible to make the random generator aspect of Stellaris work in the mods favor, I just think it's pointless to talk about a defined map, when we don't know if a traditional defined map is even plausible at the moment besides set star co-ordinates. This is also why I said a debate about 30k vs 40k is pointless at the moment too. But, don't worry I'll work to make sure the mod has a very strong 40k aesthetic, and mechanical form.

The real challenge is planning things we know we can edit for instance Traits, Ethos, Governments are all likely very modifiable. This is why I want to know if it's possible to tie races to certain government types, if this is possible than we can make the random generator notice that AI Ork #1 has picked Ork race, make government type Orkish Horde available for Ork race. This essentially means we would restrict some of the Xenos to government types that make SENSE for them.

 

[Jywert]

Will be interesting to see what will come of this.

Stellaris could better be fitted for the great crusade with the emperor at the helm, going to bring The Imperial Truth to the universe.
As in this kind of scenario you could "win" the war against the chaos. As you bringing the Imperial Truth you would lessen the forces of chaos affecting the material world, by increasing the amount of "order" in the universe.

But 40k Mod
Create "Imperium" Federation or empire (if many players/Ai can be in same empire). But we have seen the alliance/federation mechanic were there is a leader, who is elected. If Imperium of man could be created , it could include Players/AI:
- space marine chapter on fringes of the empire purging some kind of Xenos
- Imperial Army /Guard. Placed inside the empire?
-Inqustion,Adeptus Ministorum or Cult Mechanicus could be actors, AI or player.
- Some kind of Chaos mechanic? Corruption, Cadadian Gate?

But will need to see what Stellaris really can do well. Like can you create super powerful Imperium what supports many unique factions inside it. Or is the need to create "Race" Imperium of Man and the add all kinds of events/flavor etc to it.

 

[6076]

Not to mention redisocvery of tech and there ARE new weapons that are used by the imperium in the sense that Imperial Knights and Mars use weapons they didn't used to use.

Limited set of tech cards and random rotation better fits rediscovering SDK and mechanicum then strait research and development process.

 

[TheIronDuke21]

Love this very much, wish you all the best and the Emperor's guidance in making this mod I will definitely be playing it at some point. I think for me a big thing will be to pay attention to the Lore and really try and bring that out in the mod with events, locations and characters and things like that.

 

[panther-anthro]

Love this very much, wish you all the best and the Emperor's guidance in making this mod I will definitely be playing it at some point. I think for me a big thing will be to pay attention to the Lore and really try and bring that out in the mod with events, locations and characters and things like that.

Characters might be a bit hard. But, we'll see what's doable on that front.