Warhammer 40K Mod: Twilight of the Imperium

[Highlordelliot]

For the random gen it doesn't take place in anything specific. For the set version probably Ultima Segmentum. But, as we said we're likely making mini-mods to go along with each and every setting.


Unrelated to this post we did a big part of our intended overhaul of the main post now that we aren't relying on art mock ups .

some place around Ultramar and the tau empire would be best you can get all the factions in that area.

 

[panther-anthro]

some place around Ultramar and the tau empire would be best you can get all the factions in that area.

Funny enough we considered this or Kronus Sector as we can have Tau in either.

 

[Kitchner]

I think ultimately when we have the races and the mechanics and the balance working it's a lot simpler to just design a map (assuming we can, we will need to wait until we have our grips on the game to be sure!)

 

[diestormlie]

I think ultimately when we have the races and the mechanics and the balance working it's a lot simpler to just design a map (assuming we can, we will need to wait until we have our grips on the game to be sure!)

It's not the difficulty of the work, just the amount of it, I'd say.

 

[uzo70]

I do hope since 1000 stars is still alot, that you will have some minor alien race planets, it is not like the 40k doesn't have enough to pick from http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Minor_Alien_Species_and_Factions
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Minor_Alien_Species_and_Factions
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Xenos
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Xenos

 

[panther-anthro]

I do hope since 1000 stars is still alot, that you will have some minor alien race planets, it is not like the 40k doesn't have enough to pick from
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Minor_Alien_Species_and_Factions
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Xenos
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Xenos

Oh, no worries we had lots of this planned already .

 

[NakedBeast]

Got some good quote about warhammer that can be useful for modding or just as info for someone interested.

This is because the Space Marines, the Imperium and Warhammer40k as a whole are concepts that are heavily inspired by Human history, dating from the earliest written records to the twentieth century. The intellectual freedom of the author, in this case GW, allows them to utilize these historic examples, place them in a futuristic setting, hand-pick which black-and-white aspects they want to use, and leave out the undefined grey areas. The result is a sci-fi universe that encompasses something for everyone. No matter what period of human history you find appealing, there will be an equivalent in this setting. In your case, it is the Space Marines, whose historic equivalents are the medieval knights, more specifically the crusaders, and the chivalric ideal image of a knight. The organization that best mirrors them is that of the Knights Templar, as all historical aspects, from faith to their role as an elite fighting force, to their subsequent betrayal by power figures found it's way into the image of the Space Marine, although the Warhammer version is much brighter in some cases. There are lore fragments from WH40K rulebooks that speak of Ecclesiarchal cardinals finding chapters wanting, and ordering them to embark on crusades into the eye of terror, which is pretty comparable to the fate of the Knights Templar in France. In the case of the Space Marines however, we see that the story goes on to tell of Space Marines surviving those crusades to return and slay these religious authority figures for their heretical betrayal. On the opposing side of the spectrum, we find the Chaos Space Marines, WH40k's rendition of the black knight, the antithesis of knightly virtues. For me, it is the Imperial Guard, which invokes mankind's collective memory of all theatres of world war 1 and world war 2. Every single army in WH40k can be compared to a historical equivalent, and every society shares a resemblance to one as well. The Imperium in particular manages to capture pre-rennaisance medieval Europe and the Roman empire very clearly, but we can also find parallels to other eras that are less clear cut, like the collapse of human society prior to the dark age of technology caused by warp storms to the 1200 BC simultaneous collapse of Mycenean Greece, the Egyptian New Era realm, the Hittite Empire and the Assyrian Empire. tl;dr: Anyone that loves History, or badass dudes in power armour, laser rifles, explosions, flying tanks, jetpacks and chainsaws can not help but love Warhammer 40k.


When it comes to the Tau, one can see fairly strong ties to Oriental cultures, more specifically Japan. A few indications for that connection is firstly the use of mecha suits, their voice acting in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade, but there is one other connection, that is slightly less clear. When one looks at real life history, it becomes fairly obvious that no one really expected the Japanese empire to become a threat to the overseas possessions of western nations. Some understood this better than others, but in any case the magnitude of the threat was misunderstood. One reason for this is ofcourse the fact that the western powers considered themselves slightly superior, although this notion had already started declining, but another reason is that Japan industrialized relatively late, and did so practically unnoticed. In 1853 an American naval squadron under the command of Matthew Perry forced Japan to open it's ports to foreign merchants. An indirect consequence was the fall of the shogunate in 1868. In 1871, Samurai officials were sent to Western europe to learn about western politics, economy and technology(One of the Samurai class' last contributions to Japanese history, in fact), and by 1900 Japan was an industrial nation, although it still depended on western imports to keep it's economy running. These political, economic and technological changes went unnoticed by most of the world, and as a result, Japan was able to perform very impressive military feats during the second world war, until the turning point at the Battle of Midway, which cost their navy too many carriers. The Tau are similar to this because they too went from a bunch of (in the eyes of the Adeptus Mechanicus Explorers) primitive savages living on a single planet to a highly advanced empire(The lore states that a warp storm enveloped their planet, and that they emerged as gundam users, pretty much). In fact, their battlefield technology surpasses the Imperium of man, but their crucial weakness is that the Tau Empire does not have access to interstellar flight(A major logistics problem during an interstellar war) and does not have access to the same kind of reserves that the Imperium can bring to bear. The rulebook simply offers us the explanation that the Imperium is too invested in fending off hive fleets and the current Black Crusade to give much of a fuck about the Tau. If the timeline of WH40k ever progresses(Which it probably won't) it will be interesting to see whether the Tyranids or the Imperium gets to them first.

The Tyranids have a shorter explanation. They have no historical counterpart in human history, and their main inspiration were the creatures from the movie Aliens. A marvelous addition nonetheless.

Orks are very strongly based on the stereotypical image of "The barbarian" that we have inherited from the Greeks and Romans. Basically a bunch of foreign tribes that they can not comprehend the motivations and methods of, who tend to form large hordes. The notable difference is that historical barbarian hordes were more of an armed refugee collumn. For instance, most of the hostile tribes that invaded the Western Roman Empire did so because their other option was being massacred by the Huns. The Orks actually stay closer to the Barbarian stereotype created by the Romans, that they are simply wild savages looking for a fight. If one compares these two images, one starts to see a relation: http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/170895/5315238/1263072461923/bad_posture_2.gif?token=GKb1yy6HGQEuqNYPQFrQ9X/acm0= http://img03.deviantart.net/5e6a/i/2013/289/c/2/warhammer_40k__ork_boyz_by_thomaswievegg-d6qp7ry.jpg Notice the similarities between the slumped posture? Where the Space Marines are an incarnation of the stereotype of knightly orders, the Orks are an incarnation of the stereotypical barbarian whose life was centered around fighting and looting. Again, Games Workshop focuses mainly on the black and white aspects, and leaves out the grey ones.

The Necrons are the WH40k incarnation of the Tomb Kings from WH Fantasy, which drew it's inspiration from ancient Egypt.

The Eldar are technically an incarnation of the High Elves from WH Fantasy, however, their history and culture would indicate that their inspiration came from a combination of what we know about the Hittites, Assyrians, Akkadians and Babylonians. Technically, the Eldar were the first race to have an Empire in WH40k, which puts them in the same category as the Akkadians on our planet. The Eldar were also one of the first races to fight the Necrons. If we assume the Necrons to be Egyptians, then one could draw a parallel to the Hittites. Their culture and religion also has a few resemblances to Assyria and Babylon. In any case, I would not draw such a strong parallel between them as I would with the Imperium and Western Europe in the dark ages, as the connections are not as clear-cut. in any case, I would search for what inspired the WH40k Eldar in pre 1200 BC mesopotamia.

The Dark Eldar are a tad harder to explain, but we know that raids by folks known as the "Sea Peoples" caused the complete destruction of many cities in the middle-east, such as the City of Ugarit, which was literally destroyed by a raid whilst they were baking clay tablets to warn neighbouring cities and nations of an incoming invasion from the sea. Many historians also point to these "Sea peoples" as a possible cause for the collapse of Mycenean Greece, which caused a dark age in Greece between 1200bc-900bc until the classical period began. Games Workshop probably did not base the Dark Eldar on these guys, but there are a few striking similarities. So yes, if I do in-depth research into a WH40k faction I can definately draw a parallel to some long-gone kingdom or empire, but it is most clearly visible when you look at the Tau and the Imperium.

The Imperium itself is a bit of an odd one, because it appears to have elements of many different eras in Roman history. The Emperor-veneration cult definately stems from the Roman Imperial era, but then you have the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition, which would represent the Papacy and the IRL inquisition, which didn't form until after the Western Roman Empire fell. The Space Marines we've discussed beforehand, and the only historical equivalents for the Imperial guard are seen during WW1 and WW2. I specifically place them in that period because they are mass armies led by a General with a Staff. Not the walking instrument, but an actual general staff. This is something we do not see in a Space Marine chapter, for instance, where each force is led by a force commander, and you have a chapter master at the head. In terms of organization, the Imperial guard as a fighting force has a much stronger resemblance to the armies that took to the field in 1918. I say 1918 specifically because Artillery did not play a major role in the earliest battles, and Tanks didn't really make an appearance until the second half of the war. By 1918 however, Imperial Germany can see all the characteristics in the opposing Western Allies that we know from the IG in WH40k. Mass infantry formations, concentrated usage of tanks, overwhelming use of artillery and the prospect of unlimited reinforcements(in the form of the Americans), complete control of the sea(space in case of WH40k, courtesy of the Imperial Navy) to prevent supplies or friendly forces from arriving and the prospect of suffering a defeat through attrition. I add World War 2 to the list as well, because while World War 1 comes close to what we are used to from the Imperial Guard, it is the Red Army as seen between 1943 and 1945 that truly comes the closest to the IG. Ofcourse the main beauty of the Imperial Guard is that there is literally a regiment or planet to represent every single military force in History from the US troops in Vietnam(Catachan) down to the Huns(Attilan Rough Riders).

 

[Kitchner]

I don't know who wrote that essay but the simple fact is that 40K and Gamesworkshop is basically all inspired by other stuff. Nothing is really that original.

Gamesworkshop also sign up to the Star Trek approach to Sci First where apart from Earth which was genetically varied every other human planet only deals in extremes. For example EVERYONE on the planet is a middle eastern inspired desert warrior culture, because the entire planet is a desert. There are only rarely planets which have multiple different cultures and things because it makes it easier to wrote for.

Ultimately writing for 40K isn't too difficult.

 

[Furrnox]

Don't fuck this up fam

 

[MeteorPhoenix]

Hey guys, awesome idea for the mod! Since you guys are all still brainstorming, I wanted to give my two cents (for 40k, not 30k).

Depending on how modable they are, I do believe the Imperium should be modeled as a federation because... well, it kind of is. Aside from the Inquisition and maybe the Arbites, the difference factions of the Imperium are independent from each other. I believe that an Imperial federation should (at least) represent three factions:

1. The Adeptus Terra, led by the Master of the Administratum.

The Adeptus Terra is a bit of a catch-all, but if you want to represent what we understand as the Imperium without breaking everything down into tiny planetlets, this is probably the best way. The Master of the Administratum is, by far, the most powerful of the High Lords, so if the rotating presidency can be modded out, he should be hard set to be the federation leader unless something specifically catastrophic happens (eg. Goge Vandire). Their fleet should be based on the Imperial Navy, Merchants Fleets and Civil Fleets, and their ground forces based on the Imperial Guard. Their capital should obviously be Holy Terra.

1a. The various Space Marine chapters.

While these vary in how independent they are, we know they are specifically excluded from becoming High Lords since they aren't to be involved in leading the Imperium. Added to the fact that they're nominally under the Adeptus Terra, I'd include these as vassal states for them.

2. The Adeptus Mechanicus, led by the Fabricator-General of Mars.

The other head of the eagle. Not sure how possible it is to give the Adeptus Terra Earth and these guys Mars, but obviously if possible, it should be done. Even though they detest Abominable Intelligences, perhaps a robotic race (or cyborgs, if possible) would better represent the Cult. I understand you guys aren't going to be building the whole galaxy at first, but giving them a bunch of worlds as Forge Worlds and making those incredibly productive for industry would work. Obviously their fleets are the Basilikon Astra, and their ground forces the Skitarii.

3. The Adeptus Ministorum (or the Ecclesiarchy), led by the Ecclesiarch.

As the last major power not even nominally part of the Adeptus Terra, it directly rules over many worlds and should be represented as its own mini-empire. While its capital is in Holy Terra, that's probably impossible to mod, so its capital would then be Ophelia VII, the second holiest world in the Imperium and former capital of the Ecclesiarchy. I don't know much about the Church's fleet, but their ground forces could be the Adepta Sororitas.

4. The Inquisition.

Frankly, I don't know what to do with these guys. They don't have a homeworld, and aren't even a unified faction, though it feels wrong to ignore something as major as these guys. One of the suggestions I read (either on this thread or reddit) was to replace scientists with inquisitors and send them to investigate anomalies in your empire. That probably works, though I wish I could think of something more.

Anyway, just wanted to share my ideas. If it's all bollocks, feel free to ignore them. Thanks for working on the mod; I'm incredibly excited for it!

 

[Cynwulf]

Many of the space marine chapters are quite independent and have there own Agenda. I would probably consider them as allied until the inquisition deems them otherwise.

 

[Kitchner]

Hey guys, awesome idea for the mod! Since you guys are all still brainstorming, I wanted to give my two cents (for 40k, not 30k).

Depending on how modable they are, I do believe the Imperium should be modeled as a federation because... well, it kind of is. Aside from the Inquisition and maybe the Arbites, the difference factions of the Imperium are independent from each other. I believe that an Imperial federation should (at least) represent three factions:

1. The Adeptus Terra, led by the Master of the Administratum.

The Adeptus Terra is a bit of a catch-all, but if you want to represent what we understand as the Imperium without breaking everything down into tiny planetlets, this is probably the best way. The Master of the Administratum is, by far, the most powerful of the High Lords, so if the rotating presidency can be modded out, he should be hard set to be the federation leader unless something specifically catastrophic happens (eg. Goge Vandire). Their fleet should be based on the Imperial Navy, Merchants Fleets and Civil Fleets, and their ground forces based on the Imperial Guard. Their capital should obviously be Holy Terra.

1a. The various Space Marine chapters.

While these vary in how independent they are, we know they are specifically excluded from becoming High Lords since they aren't to be involved in leading the Imperium. Added to the fact that they're nominally under the Adeptus Terra, I'd include these as vassal states for them.

2. The Adeptus Mechanicus, led by the Fabricator-General of Mars.

The other head of the eagle. Not sure how possible it is to give the Adeptus Terra Earth and these guys Mars, but obviously if possible, it should be done. Even though they detest Abominable Intelligences, perhaps a robotic race (or cyborgs, if possible) would better represent the Cult. I understand you guys aren't going to be building the whole galaxy at first, but giving them a bunch of worlds as Forge Worlds and making those incredibly productive for industry would work. Obviously their fleets are the Basilikon Astra, and their ground forces the Skitarii.

3. The Adeptus Ministorum (or the Ecclesiarchy), led by the Ecclesiarch.

As the last major power not even nominally part of the Adeptus Terra, it directly rules over many worlds and should be represented as its own mini-empire. While its capital is in Holy Terra, that's probably impossible to mod, so its capital would then be Ophelia VII, the second holiest world in the Imperium and former capital of the Ecclesiarchy. I don't know much about the Church's fleet, but their ground forces could be the Adepta Sororitas.

4. The Inquisition.

Frankly, I don't know what to do with these guys. They don't have a homeworld, and aren't even a unified faction, though it feels wrong to ignore something as major as these guys. One of the suggestions I read (either on this thread or reddit) was to replace scientists with inquisitors and send them to investigate anomalies in your empire. That probably works, though I wish I could think of something more.

Anyway, just wanted to share my ideas. If it's all bollocks, feel free to ignore them. Thanks for working on the mod; I'm incredibly excited for it!

We've discussed this at length you'll be glad to know!

A Federation is a poor choice because the Factions of the Imperium youre talking about are certainly not equal and certainly do not take it in turns to decide foreign policy. Likewise each of these would then need their own military plus a Federation level military which uses the best tech from all the Factions, which isn't what the Imperium does.

The Imperium is ran by the Council of Terra, which does contain representatives from the Factions you mentioned. However, 99.99% of the Imperium is the Adeptus Terra.

The Ecclisarchy, the Administratum, the Imperial Guard, the Imperial Navy, the Arbitrators, and more are all the Adeptus Terra.

Space Marines, the Inquisition, and the Adeptus Mechanics are all drops in the ocean. While the latter two can certainly influence decisions, they are never in control.

The best way to represent the Imperium, as I think we have already mentioned in this thread, is an "Imperium" empire which is quintessentially the Adeptus Terra, and then the Space Marines and Adeptus Mechanics are all vassals of the Imperium. This will leave the vassals are largely independent factions that you can't directly influence, but will still fight in the wars you declare.

On top of that, it is possible for these vassals to break off and attack the Imperium, which has happened several times in the past when the Adeptus Terra became particularly corrupt.

Chaos on the other hand should form a Federation to represent black crusades, and then fall apart after the crusade is over. It makes a lot more sense for them to be represented in that way as that's basically how they operate.

 

[Abayonett]

Space marines should be either vassals or protectorates.

 

[Highlordelliot]

Space marines should be either vassals or protectorates.

space marines are good as marches

 

[Abayonett]

space marines are good as marches

Are marches in the game?

 

[Alexander Altdorf]

We've discussed this at length you'll be glad to know!

A Federation is a poor choice because the Factions of the Imperium youre talking about are certainly not equal and certainly do not take it in turns to decide foreign policy. Likewise each of these would then need their own military plus a Federation level military which uses the best tech from all the Factions, which isn't what the Imperium does.

The Imperium is ran by the Council of Terra, which does contain representatives from the Factions you mentioned. However, 99.99% of the Imperium is the Adeptus Terra.

The Ecclisarchy, the Administratum, the Imperial Guard, the Imperial Navy, the Arbitrators, and more are all the Adeptus Terra.

Space Marines, the Inquisition, and the Adeptus Mechanics are all drops in the ocean. While the latter two can certainly influence decisions, they are never in control.

The best way to represent the Imperium, as I think we have already mentioned in this thread, is an "Imperium" empire which is quintessentially the Adeptus Terra, and then the Space Marines and Adeptus Mechanics are all vassals of the Imperium. This will leave the vassals are largely independent factions that you can't directly influence, but will still fight in the wars you declare.

On top of that, it is possible for these vassals to break off and attack the Imperium, which has happened several times in the past when the Adeptus Terra became particularly corrupt.

Chaos on the other hand should form a Federation to represent black crusades, and then fall apart after the crusade is over. It makes a lot more sense for them to be represented in that way as that's basically how they operate.

My first post after years of lurking by saying: I like this solution. Pretty elegant.

 

[EvilSoeren]

Space marines should be either vassals or protectorates.

I would say that it would be determined case by case. I hope there are sub vassals because some chapters might need them because of their relation to their successor chapters.

 

[Jastebro]

This is the chance to bring back Squats to the 40K universe.
Grimdark needs its spacedwarves!

 

[Kitchner]

This is the chance to bring back Squats to the 40K universe.
Grimdark needs its spacedwarves!

We have talked about Squats.

Sadly the canon lore is that the Squats are all dead having been eaten by a Tyranid hive fleet.

The Demiurge on the other hand, a very squat like race, is still alive.

(Basically for anyone who doesn't know the squats were space dwarves and designed back in the 80s when GW mainly smoked a lot of weed and painted everything in primary colours. They all rode around on bikes with laser guns. GW killed them as they were too silly, and had a half hearted plan to bring a "dwarf like" space race back as the Demiurge, but never followed up on it)

 

[NakedBeast]

The complexity of Imperium is absolutly necessary to somehow being represented because it is the reason Imperium is in slow decline yet surviving - power is always distributed so no single individual can make second Horus Heresy but the constant struggle of various imperial institutions among themselves plus fighting external threat leaves little time and effort to spare to expansion.
Also constant local rebellions of sectors, worlds, space marine chapters are major theme of Warhammer 40k - such wars are huge part of wars Imperium wages. That, combined with constant myriad external threats make Imperium slowly being pushed into oblivion. So, setting's grimdark is there partly because of Imperium's fragmented structure.

There is one important thing that can't be forgotten from lore perspective - Imperium is bunch of interstellar organisations that use only part of planetary incomes. Adeptus Terra use the major part of it in form of collecting Imperial Tithe - approximatly 10% of income of planets that are inside Imperium. But those planets themselves are not in direct control of Imperium! Direct control would be 100% of production. Instead there are Planet Governors who control planet's production and all of planetary affairs and are only responsible for paying Imperial Tithe and truly serious heresy (and it would be considered truly serious only when it threatens imperial tithe).

Actually the game got a design that fits Imperium perfectly - sectors. Sectors are run by local aristocracy aka Sector Governors, people like this guy - http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Marius_Hax
The majority of Imperium's planets are such. Stellaris sectors also pay taxes - Imperial Tithe! This tax goes to Adeptus Terra and related branches like Imperial Navy and Imperial guard, those have few planets with shipyards and fortress worlds, respectivly, also part of Imperial Tithe is spent on buying stuff from Adeptus Mechanicus.
Space marines could be represented as one planet vassals and inquisitors as scientists.