Ward rivalry event

[Castios]

Anyone else thinks that's one of the most bs events in the entire game? How does it even make sense? Inspiring ambition in your child makes him hate you so much he wants to plot against you and murder you?

The rivalry penalty is so huge, it's double of powerful vassal not being granted council position. And for what, getting ambitious trait?

Personally I think that if anything, this event should result in like 50 opinion penalty for few years at most, not instant rivalry.

I love when this game tries to be realistic, at least when it comes to opinion modifiers between characters. That's also main drive for me to play this game as I like to roleplay a bit, so I try to keep relations between family members as good as possible. That means my kids can never be ambitious because for some reason, it means they automatically hate their parent, even when they are designated and groomed heir.

I know at this stage of the game development it's perhaps asking for too much, but there should be a way to get rid of rivalry, especially between family members. and yes I know family focus technically does it, but it never happens as chance is probably very low, and choosing focus just to get rid of rivarly with one character is asking too much because family focus is otherwise useless.

 

[fall back]

It also pops way to often on a good 70% of my personal tutored wards

 

[Castios]

Often enough that when I used to always pick ambitious option I usually had all my children be my rivals. That's ridiculous imo.

 

[nightgerbil]

For what its worth I just auto ignore it. I routinely have like 70-100 kids in my prisons and Im popping that event every few weeks. I can't give them patience, why would i make a rival? like why? so its just "learn on their own" click and done. I don't even check it the kids are mine any more. There are NO GOOD OPTIONS for this event.

 

[DPS]

Now that court tutors are a thing, there's no reason to be personally educating your children (nor anyone else's, for that matter).

 

[Rags17]

You guys are all missing some pretty obvious stuff.

First off, ever hear of the Plantagenets ? The model here I think is Henry II - every one of his sons hated his guts and not one of them (even poor John Lackland !) wanted for ambition. The theory here is that if you encourage your kids to think big then it won't be long before they will be asking why your titles aren't thers yet.

As Henry the Young King said upon being made joint king with his father - "You father may be King, but I am King and also the son of a King !". You can't argue with that logic !

Second, who cares if your son is your rival ? What is he going to do - murder you ? Bring it on, if he does then you should presumably take over as him, now you're playing as a character with +3 in every attribute plus some wicked ass new event and decision options. And if he doesn't then just let him seethe - make him the head of your personal mercenary company and take out his aggression on the local populace.

I for one ALWAYS take the Ambitious option for my primary heir, then the Diligent option for my second child (if I plan on giving him/her land or a key role in Council), otherwise they're on their own.

Let your ambitious son hate you - haters gonna hate !

 

[Tryvenyal]

No good options? There are 3 great options! You can give your heir one ot the 3 best traits in the game! No reason to not ignore the event? I think I have never ever picked the "He must learn on his own" option for anybody except maybe a few useless prisoners that I failed/was to late to convert).

 

[Yeekim]

Indeed. Rivalry is cheap price to pay for one of the best ingame traits.

 

[Wakizashi]

It would be a major issue if you play only as that one ruler. But you don't. Who knows, you may very well play as the ambitious son soon, and then you'll be happy you made him ambitious.

 

[Castios]

For what its worth I just auto ignore it. I routinely have like 70-100 kids in my prisons and Im popping that event every few weeks. I can't give them patience, why would i make a rival? like why? so its just "learn on their own" click and done. I don't even check it the kids are mine any more. There are NO GOOD OPTIONS for this event.

Well of course there is no reason to educate your prisoners, which are potential enemies, especially giving them ambition, that would be just plain stupid. Ambitious is great for your deisgned heir but I recently decided that Diligent is better, even at the cost of being stressed, because it has chance to up your education level and does not make your son potential threat to you and his siblings. They also make better landed vassals, especially since AI tends to pass on ambitious trait onto their offspring.

Now that court tutors are a thing, there's no reason to be personally educating your children (nor anyone else's, for that matter).

Of course there is. Choosing your traits manually, especially for your heir is way better. AI tutors, even when they have right traits for positive intervention, can be random. You, as ruler, usually gonna have right traits for positive intervention, that includes Diligent and often Brave to avoid your heir becoming Dull.

And there are minor traits that you want to decide upon yourself, like I don't want my kids become cynical because I want them to be holy people etc.

You guys are all missing some pretty obvious stuff.

First off, ever hear of the Plantagenets ? The model here I think is Henry II - every one of his sons hated his guts and not one of them (even poor John Lackland !) wanted for ambition. The theory here is that if you encourage your kids to think big then it won't be long before they will be asking why your titles aren't thers yet.

As Henry the Young King said upon being made joint king with his father - "You father may be King, but I am King and also the son of a King !". You can't argue with that logic !

Second, who cares if your son is your rival ? What is he going to do - murder you ? Bring it on, if he does then you should presumably take over as him, now you're playing as a character with +3 in every attribute plus some wicked ass new event and decision options. And if he doesn't then just let him seethe - make him the head of your personal mercenary company and take out his aggression on the local populace.

I for one ALWAYS take the Ambitious option for my primary heir, then the Diligent option for my second child (if I plan on giving him/her land or a key role in Council), otherwise they're on their own.

I would say this is more an exception to the rule than anything else.

And why wouldn't you want your son to be your rival? Well why would you? He is your flesh and blood, your heir and your kid, why would you want mutual hatred between you and your child?

Even when you are total minmaxer and don't care about roleplay, yes, he is going to murder you. Maybe alone he won't have that big of a chance, but if you have few rival kids they have pretty good shot at murdering you. In best case scenario they gonna rot and waste away in your prison, instead of increasing glory of your dynasty.

No good options? There are 3 great options! You can give your heir one ot the 3 best traits in the game! No reason to not ignore the event? I think I have never ever picked the "He must learn on his own" option for anybody except maybe a few useless prisoners that I failed/was to late to convert).

I usually pick Diligent or Patient as 2nd choice. I think Diligent is better than ambitious because it can up your education level and you do not get powerful rival in your court that WILL plot against you, since ambitious makes it 3x more likely for AI to plot. I often play Hermetics just because in this game you roughly get stressed every 5 years or so, at least it feels like it. My ruler once died both stressed and depressed because I couldn't brew magic potions fast enough, lol.

Either way some of you seem to miss the point of my post. It's not worth it-not worth it debate, but sheer level of absurdity of this, very common, event.

 

[Tryvenyal]

Either way some of you seem to miss the point of my post. It's not worth it-not worth it debate, but sheer level of absurdity of this, very common, event.

It´s only a very common event for peoply who max - min their charachters As the requirements includes having 2 or more attributes above level 13. But I agree.. The event is absurdly OP.

 

[Castimirr]

This is one of the many reasons I abused the Hermetics so much. Free trait upgrade? Yes, please. I have enough ingredients. I thought you got this event for all kids you tutor, but I haven't looked to see what the chance of it firing is so I'm not sure. The options available depend on your stats and the traits the child already has. That one, like someone said, requires two traits above 13.

 

[AntZudan]

It's a fine event but it fires way too often. And I RP instead of min max. Maybe they just need to add a few alternate versions

 

[Rags17]

:
I usually pick Diligent or Patient as 2nd choice. I think Diligent is better than ambitious because it can up your education level and you do not get powerful rival in your court that WILL plot against you, since ambitious makes it 3x more likely for AI to plot.
:

Hmm, let's see - give my son +3 in every attribute plus a whole range of sweet new event and decision options BUT he hates my guts, or give my son just +1 in every attribute plus a chance to get an extra +2-3 in one other attribute BUT I get stressed and in all probability die sooner.

Hmm - die later and pass on to a better son or die sooner and pass on to a worse son.

Hmm, what am I missing here ?

 

[Castios]

Hmm, let's see - give my son +3 in every attribute plus a whole range of sweet new event and decision options BUT he hates my guts, or give my son just +1 in every attribute plus a chance to get an extra +2-3 in one other attribute BUT I get stressed and in all probability die sooner.

Hmm - die later and pass on to a better son or die sooner and pass on to a worse son.

Hmm, what am I missing here ?

+2 to every attribute*

Your son hating your guts can also lead to you dying sooner.

I don't argue that ambitious is an amazing trait, probably still a little better than Diligent even considering higher education chance (although it depends because some educations are more difficult to be improved) I just personally hate when my kids hate me. To me it's too gamey and stupid to have constant parent-kid hatred going on, because I used to always pick ambitious in my games and rival my kids but after few hundreds hours of gameplay I just decided to play in more realistic way and avoid gamey tactics. It's more challenging trying to play as good guy, keeping relations with your family good and do not murder too many people.

Still, it's not related to my opinion of this event, which I always considered extremely stupid. "Oh, you wanna help your kid and designed heir to be even smarter and more cunning? Well he gonna hate you for this." because screw logic, right.

 

[Rags17]

I do agree with you that you shouldn't chase this option just to breed a race of super humans. I actually HATE that style of play and it baffles me how players are able to breed these absolute monstrosities while running two thirds of the known world as a Genius Attractive Immortal devil worshiping reformed Norse demi-god with a dozen bloodlines under his belt.

The above being said I do like (err - LOVE) roleplaying and if my ruler is Wroth, Arbitrary or Ambitious then I see taking the first option to be a natural outgrowth of that. I even had one ruler who treated his son like crap, made him Ambitious and gave him a great education in military matters only to see the son turn against him as soon as he became an adult. In my old age I tried to make amends so I gave him gifts, honors and a Council position before creating him as a Count and then a Duke and taking him Carousing. We actually ended up being best friends before he died, which is a great story all round.

In general I try to play as a firm but benevolent ruler, only lapsing into cruelty if my character's traits and the particular situation warrants it, eg that bastard rebel beat me three times before my fourth savescum won the day - now we'll see why I always play with Blind/Torture/Maim without release turned on !

 

[Castios]

I do agree with you that you shouldn't chase this option just to breed a race of super humans. I actually HATE that style of play and it baffles me how players are able to breed these absolute monstrosities while running two thirds of the known world as a Genius Attractive Immortal devil worshiping reformed Norse demi-god with a dozen bloodlines under his belt.

The above being said I do like (err - LOVE) roleplaying and if my ruler is Wroth, Arbitrary or Ambitious then I see taking the first option to be a natural outgrowth of that. I even had one ruler who treated his son like crap, made him Ambitious and gave him a great education in military matters only to see the son turn against him as soon as he became an adult. In my old age I tried to make amends so I gave him gifts, honors and a Council position before creating him as a Count and then a Duke and taking him Carousing. We actually ended up being best friends before he died, which is a great story all round.

In general I try to play as a firm but benevolent ruler, only lapsing into cruelty if my character's traits and the particular situation warrants it, eg that bastard rebel beat me three times before my fourth savescum won the day - now we'll see why I always play with Blind/Torture/Maim without release turned on !

I pretty much play the same. I try to stay away from "kill the entire dynasty and inherit their titles, ez pz" bs.

But I didn't know you can turn rival into friend, how?

 

[junassa]

I think the only time an ambitious son killed me was when I forgot to put my spymaster on auto. I give my son so much money and artis he's not really my rival anymore.

 

[Serenity84]

I can't recall ever having been killed by an ambitious son.

 

[FifthMonarchy]

Rarely pick the option even though I do educate my kids myself as I tend to be in the monastic order if I'm Christian which gives good education events. But really wanted to say the event that most annoys me is that one designed to give a vassal a favour on you "Help!" and needing to run for shelter then you pretty much always end up either dead or a drunkard