War Progress Throwing off Historical events / options?

[unmerged(15725)]

I'm playing an interesting game based in part on some things I have read here (just came back to the game after a year or so hiatus). As Germany, I pumped out 24 Infantry divisions. Took Poland immediately in 36, declined any deal with the commies. Took Lithuania, Hungary, and Yugoslavia all by the spring of 37.

USSR DOW's me. I make OK progress as my force is mostly infantry. I surround moscow, but the capital is eventually moved. I then run into supply problems and spend the summer of 38 taking the caucuses. Don't take Leningrad or Archangel until spring of 39.

USA, btw, entered the war in the beginning of 38.

I have about 18 divisions defending Germany, 6 in yugoslavia, 6 in Riga, and then 50 armoured and 60 or so infantry pushing further and further into Russia.

It's now early 1940, and I did not get an option for the bitter piece even though I now own all the VP's in the Urals as well. The only ones left are the ones out near Tannu Tuva, which will take me like a year to drive to.

Meanwhile, the Russians have about 200 divisions total (although 75% militia) but it takes a hell of a lot of infantry to maintain a corridor out to those VP's to annex Russia. (The japs have taken vladivostok).

Anyway, how come I didn't get a bitter peace option? I would have taken it. France has over 90 divisions, and the US and Britain have at least 30 each in France, I am very concerned about the threat in the west.

However, I have constant manpower shortages because I have so much infantry (since I did an early war, I was just pumping out infantry).

The second quirky thing is that I never got an option in the Anshcluss. It just never happened. Finally in the beginning of 40 I have allied with Austria and taken control of the military just so I can bring the 15 or so infantry divisons east as it seems my only option is to totally annex Russia, and to do it soon.

So anyway, I have been stuck in russia for three years now, with a powerrful army threatening my from france. That's all interesting enough, my main question is though:

Why no Anshcluss?
Why no option for the bitter peace?

 

[talin]

If Im reading the Germany events right you can not be at war when they are supposed to happen. That goes for Anschluss of Austria and the Treaty of Munich. The Bitter Peace has a small chance of happening, just 5%, and you need to control Paris, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Moscow, Baku and Magnitogrosk.

 

[unmerged(21924)]

Not quite

If Im reading the Germany events right you can not be at war when they are supposed to happen. That goes for Anschluss of Austria and the Treaty of Munich. The Bitter Peace has a small chance of happening, just 5%, and you need to control Paris, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Moscow, Baku and Magnitogrosk.

Not quite. You don't have to control Paris to get the bitter peace, only Russian VPs. I don't have the game on my computer anymore, so I can't remember exactly, but I think you need to own most of the VP's as far west as Magnitogorsk IF Japan is not in the Axis. If Japan is in the axis, you need to control Vladivostok. However, the Bitter Peace isn't automatic. Someone answered a question I had about it once in great detail, but it's something like the game checks every month or something, with a certain percentage chance each time. It will eventually happen, but I highly recommend saving and reloading the game to make sure the AI is "woken up" and will actually perform the check.

Good luck,

Chris

 

[gzav]

Yes, you have to control Paris too...

 

[Vissarion]

And you should have attacked Austria to get the manpower (if they are cores before anchluss event?).

Anyway, switch to the man of the people-minister, he should give quite some manpower when you control most of Russia.

 

[unmerged(35206)]

If Im reading the Germany events right you can not be at war when they are supposed to happen. That goes for Anschluss of Austria and the Treaty of Munich. The Bitter Peace has a small chance of happening, just 5%, and you need to control Paris, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Moscow, Baku and Magnitogrosk.

.. or allies of Germany I presume. I have had control of more or less half of Russia when the Bitter Peace was triggered. Literally stalled for 10 seconds before it could generate the gazillion "Enemy in sight" alert boxes. Thanks for absolutely nothing. Everything went to Germany although more than half of the affected areas were mine. Already past Tannu Tuvo and well on the way to Vladivostok (Japan was neutral). Which brings me to another point. Why the heck is Japan awarded anything in bitter peace if they aren't even part of the Axis?
Nice to know the areas you must control. Next time I'll hold off on Baku if I manage to do something similar (not likely).
A third question and highly hypothetic. Does the bitter peace only come to Germany or will USSR also yield this to the Allies?

 

[unmerged(17617)]

.. or allies of Germany I presume. I have had control of more or less half of Russia when the Bitter Peace was triggered. Literally stalled for 10 seconds before it could generate the gazillion "Enemy in sight" alert boxes. Thanks for absolutely nothing. Everything went to Germany although more than half of the affected areas were mine. Already past Tannu Tuvo and well on the way to Vladivostok (Japan was neutral). Which brings me to another point. Why the heck is Japan awarded anything in bitter peace if they aren't even part of the Axis?
Nice to know the areas you must control. Next time I'll hold off on Baku if I manage to do something similar (not likely).
A third question and highly hypothetic. Does the bitter peace only come to Germany or will USSR also yield this to the Allies?

The event only affects Germany because you would have to write an event for every situation such as Romania being part of the Axis, or Hungary, Turkey, Persia, Afghanistan etc, etc. And then for every combination of these countries .

Japan is probably an exception because even if they aren't part of the Axis, they signed several treaties in the '30 ies against communism, so that may be why they get some contested areas. Finland also gets some land even if they are not part of the Axis BTW.

The Bitter peace is only for Germany, and not the Allies AFAIK.

 

[unmerged(15725)]

OK, I guess the answer is that I don't hold Paris. I was trying a new strategy of going east before west, figuring I could trigger the bitter piece in two summers of fighting at most. Now I'm three years into the Soviet Union... hopefully at this point I can pull off full annexation within 6 months. If the allies don't make a big push in that time I will be ok... hit Rumania on the way back west, and then work on France.

I didn't invade Austria because I was waiting for the Anschluss, and by the time I realized it wasn't going to happen I was already fully engaged in Russia and couldnt pull troops back to invade.

The upsdie to all this is that my manpower shortage has me using all of my mapower as replacements.. I have not been building new units.. so my research is very advanced. I should have nukes by mid '41, and have been giving a lot of tech to Japan who is in the axis. I'm sure that Italy will join whenever I ask them, but with the US already fully committed to the war I fear that they would be ovverrun if they join the fight before I am fully comitted to battle in France.


Also, anyone ever seen Finland come in on the side of the Allies? They are leaning heavily towards democracy, as I went to war with the Soviets long before the Finnish Winter war. As I have said, if I can pull of the annexation of Russia soon I will be in a great position, but if France were to actually make a big move and at the same time Finland joined the allies, I think I would be in deep S**T.

edited by gzav - Please read the Double posts sticky.

 

[jdrou]

.. or allies of Germany I presume.

Germany itself must control Paris but the SOV provinces may be controlled by anyone other than SOV to make it trigger.

Also, anyone ever seen Finland come in on the side of the Allies?

Not that I recall. Have you noticed any of the Allies trying to influence Finland? If so, they will probably ask them to ally eventually, otherwise probably not.

 

[unmerged(15725)]

haven't noticed them trying to influence Finaland, but then again I don't get a pop up box for influencing events.

 

[jdrou]

haven't noticed them trying to influence Finaland, but then again I don't get a pop up box for influencing events.

Yes, it's too annoying to have it popup but I do have it sent to the log so I can see it if I want to.

 

[unmerged(35206)]

The event only affects Germany because you would have to write an event for every situation such as Romania being part of the Axis, or Hungary, Turkey, Persia, Afghanistan etc, etc. And then for every combination of these countries .

Japan is probably an exception because even if they aren't part of the Axis, they signed several treaties in the '30 ies against communism, so that may be why they get some contested areas. Finland also gets some land even if they are not part of the Axis BTW.

The Bitter peace is only for Germany, and not the Allies AFAIK.

I am not familiar with the scripting language used to make these events, but if it can get the controller of a province it must be doable.

if (predetermined areas lost) {
who = get controller of moscow (whatever the area code is)
ask = opendialogue(bitter_peace, who)
if (ask==true) {
x = get controller of kiev (whatever the area code is)
if (x==RUS) x=who
set owner of kiev = x
set national claim on kiev from x
... and so on for all the areas west of the Urals (would be a bit long)
Then the last special cases with Sakhalinsk.
if (who member of axis)
east = JAP
else
east = USA
and award these to either Japan or USA depending on which alliance is at war.
}
}

Sorry for the pseudo-code, but it's just to give a sketchy idea.
It was just a bucket of cold water straight in the face. Was playing a very aggresive Yugoslavia in possesion of the Balkans and Turkey and my manpower had taken a serious hit for nothing. Much more problematic with a "best of the rest" nation. For some reason my quick naval invasion of Krim and Caucasus really pissed the Russians off and they threw everything at Bessarabia to try and cut the rather thin spearhead off. Some 70 units or so counting them. Their folly became apperent when my mobile reserve counter-attacked and encircled the cream of their army. 28 of their prime divisions (medium armor, mec inf) obliterated excluding smaller 5-10 unit pockets the Germans cleared and the 10 or so infantry units that was chewn up in direct confrontation, and the Germans had allready waltzed into Moscow virtually unopposed. The winter war was still on and the Finns were in Leningrad and Murmansk! Trying to realign for another front they were hit hard from the south where my Caucasus campaign had succeeded and I punched right through Stalingrad and onto the Trans-Siberian railway (the 50 infrastruct areas going east). Then they paniced completely and (as said) my units where advancing every direction east when I got nothing. My airforce in shambles and 0 in manpower for naught (in fact most units were 50-70 strength even after exhausting my manpower). Took me several days to play out and... well, I was feeling a bit cheated.
Sorry for the long and rather redundant AAR, but somehow I felt it was appropiate to illustrate just how discouraging it was.

 

[jdrou]

I am not familiar with the scripting language used to make these events, but if it can get the controller of a province it must be doable.

if (predetermined areas lost) {
who = get controller of moscow (whatever the area code is)
ask = opendialogue(bitter_peace, who)
if (ask==true) {
x = get controller of kiev (whatever the area code is)
if (x==RUS) x=who
set owner of kiev = x
set national claim on kiev from x
... and so on for all the areas west of the Urals (would be a bit long)
Then the last special cases with Sakhalinsk.
if (who member of axis)
east = JAP
else
east = USA
and award these to either Japan or USA depending on which alliance is at war.
}
}

Event scripting is not nearly this flexible. It basically consists of triggers and commands which will be executed when those triggers are met and one of up to 4 options is chosen by the event receiver. Any kind of if-then or "case" construct will require multiple events to create. See Havard's HoI Hacking Heaven for details. After having experience in high-level languages or even assembly language or DOS batch programming, complex event scripting can be very painful. You'd probably need an event for each province and for each country that might control it (i.e. num_provs*num_countries events). For example, the current vanilla event sequence is two triggering events (Japan is Axis or Japan is neutral) for SOV, two events for GER where they choose whether to accept the peace offer, and two more SOV events where the provinces are seceded.

 

[unmerged(31951)]

I have seen Finland join the Allies only once and it was just after the beginning of the Winter War in '39. Served as a true pain in the ass to me as the USSR to be at war w/ the Allies from late '39 on and then having to fight the Germans in Europe in mid '41.

 

[jdrou]

I have seen Finland join the Allies only once and it was just after the beginning of the Winter War in '39. Served as a true pain in the ass to me as the USSR to be at war w/ the Allies from late '39 on and then having to fight the Germans in Europe in mid '41.

Were the Allies already at war with Germany when Finland joined? If not then that was probably a Democratic Sphere of Influence effect and isn't really relevant to his situation. (This used to happen all the time when the SoIs were first added; human USSR would DoW Finland early or Allies didn't go to war over Poland and attacked USSR instead when USSR attacked Finland.)

 

[unmerged(3221)]

I am not familiar with the scripting language used to make these events, but if it can get the controller of a province it must be doable.
... < snip >

Go to db/events and open up the USSR events file. Look at the code for the Bitter Peace. Then before you next play an aggressive Yugoslavian game, try to figure out all the possible ways that you can edit that USSR event file to get what you want. While it's doable for individual countries on a personal basis, there's no way that the game engine could sort out all sorts of possible claims and progress by non German Axis allies.