War of The Roses

[Mr. Charisma22]

Is the War of The Roses something that every England player will have to deal with? Or does it firing have to do with revolt risk...etc?

 

[LemonMonk]

If Henry has an heir, I do not think the Wars of the Roses will take place. I do not know for sure.. but I believe Quill said that.

 

[Amagaeru]

Is the War of The Roses something that every England player will have to deal with? Or does it firing have to do with revolt risk...etc?

That's a succession crisis war and it can happen randomly to any monarchy in game if there is no heir.

 

[Captain Gars]

It can happen before 1500 if you lack an heir. If I remember correctly, high stability should make it less likely. It's quite the pain to fight through but it adds a lot to the challenge of playing England

 

[BobbyDylan]

Jesus, is this even winnable? After a pretty good hundred years war (I won), I was in pretty good shape. Still 10k manpower in the bank and 32k men in the field. Then, the war of the roses....

After putting down 5 15k deathstacks, my armies are decimated:

I'm left with this, about a 100k of enemies still to deal with.

 

[Eoino]

I have to say, playing as France, the War of the Roses is the best thing ever

 

[Raen]

For whatever the reason (luck, very probably), I didn't have that much trouble. I had already gotten peace with France when it hit and was thus able to jump on the very first Lancastrian stack (after taking some loans and raising a good army).

After that I kept stability high (5-3-2 monarch) and used harsh treatment on any provinces looking iffy. After several years I got the message that the Wars of the Roses were over.

Of course, now France has declared war again and I have new problems....

 

[Jebusrocks]

Jesus, is this even winnable? After a pretty good hundred years war (I won), I was in pretty good shape. Still 10k manpower in the bank and 32k men in the field. Then, the war of the roses....

After putting down 5 15k deathstacks, my armies are decimated:

I'm left with this, about a 100k of enemies still to deal with.

View attachment 87833

Uhh... that sucks lol, what happens if you just submit to the rebels? DOesnt it just mean that you get to keep playing England under the Lancasters? Also, is that you or Aragon occupying all those french territories?

 

[costevie]

100k seems like a lot and more troops than were involved in the actual WotR, no?

 

[Raen]

what happens if you just submit to the rebels? DOesnt it just mean that you get to keep playing England under the Lancasters?

I was wondering that too.

 

[AnotherZaphod]

My first game as England was ridiculous. I got a Low Fertility event, a Lollard Heresy Event, the War of the Roses Event followed by a Civil War event all in the space of a year, it was around 1446-1447. Then a majority of my provinces declared against me. And as BobbyDylan posted above it was 15k stack after stack. I eventually ran out of manpower and had to restart.

 

[macphineas]

What happens if you lose to the rebels?

 

[Johnny Canuck]

It's quite the pain to fight through but it adds a lot to the challenge of playing England

It's a brilliant set of events - I just barely won, winning the last battle with my manpower at zero and the treasury empty!

 

[BobbyDylan]

100k seems like a lot and more troops than were involved in the actual WotR, no?

By quite a bit. That those are only the troops they have left, like I said, I'd already put down about 75k. So, WATR spawns circa 175k troops against you (admittedly in bits) when you have a forcelimit of about 42k, and a financial limit of about 30k. Yeah, this seems to be the kobayashi maru of EU4 so far.

What happens if you lose to the rebels?

That what I had to do in the end, let them siege all my stuff. At the end of it, I got a quite a good king, a couple of Regiments (I think I got about 12k troops gifted to me)and an empty treasury wracked with loans (tried to use mercs). But Cornwall and Wales were independent, and Gasgone defected to Foix.

After about 25 years of playing, I've finally recovered from the HYW and the WoTR. My Only consolation is that I broke France in my HYW, so they're too busy dealing with an aggressive Provance and Olenais (lol).

Also... Why does England get a -1000 relations penalty for "Opinion of england" with most of the powers after a while?

 

[tormos]

As France the WOTW pretty much clinched the HYW for me. I was wavering on whether or not to take all the provinces in france when it happened. For a mere 3000 manpower gift to the rebels, I essentially got the continent to myself. My only problem with the event is that the +25 relation bonus you get if the lancasters win is a bit silly considering you may well be at -200 anyway as a result of the HYW.

 

[Diomedes]

Jesus, is this even winnable? After a pretty good hundred years war (I won), I was in pretty good shape. Still 10k manpower in the bank and 32k men in the field. Then, the war of the roses....

After putting down 5 15k deathstacks, my armies are decimated:

I'm left with this, about a 100k of enemies still to deal with.

You actually acquitted yourself rather well there. It could've been a lot worse. You're not the only one who has experienced this. Another member posted this earlier. Until the problem regarding number of rebels allowed to spawn is addressed in a patch, I'm afraid the War of the Roses is unwinnable.

 

[KroganElite]

Spoiler

# Lack of an Heir
country_event = {
id = flavor_eng.9250
title = "flavor_eng.EVTNAME9250"
desc = "flavor_eng.EVTDESC9250"
picture = WAR_OF_THE_ROSES_eventPicture

trigger = {
NOT = { has_country_flag = war_of_the_roses_ended }
NOT = { has_country_flag = war_of_the_roses }
NOT = { has_country_flag = ENG_had_event_9250 }
NOT = { is_year = 1500 }
tag = ENG
has_regency = no
has_heir = no
}

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 120
}

immediate = {
set_country_flag = ENG_had_event_9250
}

option = { # Most troubling indeed
name = "flavor_eng.EVTOPTA9250"
add_ruler_modifier = {
name = low_fertility
duration = -1
}
}
}

# War of the Roses
country_event = {
id = flavor_eng.9255
title = "flavor_eng.EVTNAME9255"
desc = "flavor_eng.EVTDESC9255"
picture = WAR_OF_THE_ROSES_eventPicture

major = yes

trigger = {
has_ruler_modifier = low_fertility
NOT = { has_country_flag = war_of_the_roses_ended }
NOT = { has_country_flag = war_of_the_roses }
NOT = { has_country_flag = ENG_had_event_9255 }
NOT = { is_year = 1500 }
tag = ENG
has_regency = no
has_heir = no
}

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 12
}

immediate = {
set_country_flag = ENG_had_event_9255
}

option = { # Support the House of Lancaster
name = "flavor_eng.EVTOPTA9255"
ai_chance = { factor = 50 }
set_country_flag = war_of_the_roses
set_country_flag = supports_house_of_lancaster
define_ruler = {
dynasty = Lancaster
}
add_manpower = -0.25
if = {
limit = {
owns = 245 # Yorkshire
245 = {
units_in_province = 1
}
}
random_owned_province = {
limit = {
region = british_isles
NOT = { units_in_province = 1 }
}
spawn_rebels = {
type = pretender_rebels
size = 3
leader = "Richard York"
}
}
}
if = {
limit = {
owns = 245 # Yorkshire
245 = {
NOT = { units_in_province = 1 }
}
}
245 = {
spawn_rebels = {
type = pretender_rebels
size = 3
leader = "Richard York"
}
}
}
}
option = { # Support the House of York
name = "flavor_eng.EVTOPTB9255"
ai_chance = { factor = 50 }
set_country_flag = war_of_the_roses
set_country_flag = supports_house_of_york
define_ruler = {
dynasty = York
}
add_manpower = -0.25
if = {
limit = {
owns = 244 # Lancashire
244 = {
units_in_province = 1
}
}
random_owned_province = {
limit = {
region = british_isles
NOT = { units_in_province = 1 }
}
spawn_rebels = {
type = pretender_rebels
size = 3
leader = "Edward Lancaster"
}
}
}
if = {
limit = {
owns = 244 # Lancashire
244 = {
NOT = { units_in_province = 1 }
}
}
244 = {
spawn_rebels = {
type = pretender_rebels
size = 3
leader = "Edward Lancaster"
}
}
}
}
}

TL;DR

First event conditions:
-Before 1500
-No heir
-No regency

MTTH ~120 months. So on average, it will take about 10 years to trigger when you have those conditions.

Result: Lower fertility which gives penalty to producing heirs.


Second event conditions(actual start of WotR):
-Before 1500
-No heir
-No regency
-First event has already fired(Low fertility)

MTTH ~12 months. On average, it will trigger within a year.

Result: War of the roses. You get a new ruler and dynasty depending on which one you choose and it spawns a rebel stack of the opposing side.

**Note: You will lose any PU/marriage or anything related to your previous ruler due to having him replaced with a new one. I had this event fire right after I won the 100 years war, which quickly prompted a ragequit.

So what's the point of all this? Get as many royal marriages you can support(4) asap to increase your chances of an heir.

 

[Pitt The Elder]

Also... Why does England get a -1000 relations penalty for "Opinion of england" with most of the powers after a while?

It's probably other powers having negative relations of you. If you're even barely negative, you'll see that -1000 in Alliance offers for instance.

 

[unmerged(32649)]

War of the roses is winnable, just make sure that you keep your revolt risk as low as can be.
I only had to prevent the first stack to make any conquests while I recovered from a victorious 100 years war.

 

[KroganElite]

Jesus, is this even winnable? After a pretty good hundred years war (I won), I was in pretty good shape. Still 10k manpower in the bank and 32k men in the field. Then, the war of the roses....

After putting down 5 15k deathstacks, my armies are decimated:

I'm left with this, about a 100k of enemies still to deal with.

View attachment 87833

No idea why you had so many spawn. I only had one 19k stack spawn. After winning the 100 years war and the WotR fired: stability was at +3 , WE 7 and revolt chances were <5 max.