'Wants your subjects provinces' should not exist

[durbal]

Herp derp I take some land that my ally doesn't care about. I transfer it to my subject. -100000 opinion 'wants your subjects provinces' annnnnd...alliance break.

Remove this. It should be copy and pasted code from 'wants your provinces'.

 

[Badesumofu]

Why should you get immunity from the modifier just by having a subject hold the province?

 

[Blust]

That's not the point. He is clearly implying that his ally didn't care about the province when he had it himself, but once a vassal have it, the ally wants it. I understand the feeling tho

 

[Fanstar1]

this is dumb, and it should be changed.

 

[ParagonSaber]

Wasn't this the way OP described it fairly recently, and changed so that there was a different weight for subject's provinces? In my experience, opinion modifiers (not sure about alliance modifiers) at least are a lot worse when an ally desires your land as compared to your subjects'.

But yeah, an ally shouldn't gain an interest in your land because you give it to a subject. Honestly, above 90 or 95 trust an AI should not be able to put your or your subjects' land as vital interest at all.

 

[durbal]

Why should you get immunity from the modifier just by having a subject hold the province?

It's a different modifier and that's entirely the problem. You can do something like take a few provinces in a peace deal and your ally is fine with it (they didn't have them as vital interest). Then the AI is coded to not want those provinces. Then you decide to give them to a subject and all of a sudden they want them all.

 

[Tavior]

Why should you get immunity from the modifier just by having a subject hold the province?

I have seen alliance that last 200 years only to be broke because they want your subject land. Not fairly recent although however if this is becoming more of a problem then it should be looked into.

 

[atwix]

its a bug, reported and confirmed.

if any province in ally that borders you or vassal gets occupied by rebels, ally goes hostile and desires land, even if it is a diplomat.

after a while, you might get pop-up "WE broke our alliance with X" without warning. bug.

if you desiege the rebel province and kill rebels, ally will go back to ally status . or, return the provinces to original owner with button helps too.

this bug has been around quite a few patches.

it costed me two-three alliances in my first 1.23 run alone.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Why should you get immunity from the modifier just by having a subject hold the province?

The question you ask is backwards.

The OP's question is "why do subjects get an enormous negative modifier when the overlord holding the same land gets none"?

Example:

Ottomans allied to player middle eastern nation with 100 trust:

- Player holds Syria directly: no hit to relations
- Player has Syria as a vassal: bigger hit than -100

I had this happen as Hsin Kayfa, but had enough relations to keep the alliance. The instant I annexed Syria, all WYP went away entirely.

 

[Sfan]

This also has further impact. The Ottomans are restricted to get claims on land of their allies with their missions, but not on their allies' subjects, so "safeguard eastern Anatolia" or "conquer Egypt" are designed not to break alliances, but they can if the land is owned by your subject: it would instantly create this -100 modifier.

 

[Badesumofu]

The question you ask is backwards.

The OP's question is "why do subjects get an enormous negative modifier when the overlord holding the same land gets none"?

Example:

Ottomans allied to player middle eastern nation with 100 trust:

- Player holds Syria directly: no hit to relations
- Player has Syria as a vassal: bigger hit than -100

I had this happen as Hsin Kayfa, but had enough relations to keep the alliance. The instant I annexed Syria, all WYP went away entirely.

To be fair, the OP didn't explain those details. I asked the question because I wanted to know more, not because I was trying to make a rhetorical point.

 

[bbqftw]

its a bug, reported and confirmed.

if any province in ally that borders you or vassal gets occupied by rebels, ally goes hostile and desires land, even if it is a diplomat.

after a while, you might get pop-up "WE broke our alliance with X" without warning. bug.

if you desiege the rebel province and kill rebels, ally will go back to ally status . or, return the provinces to original owner with button helps too.

this bug has been around quite a few patches.

it costed me two-three alliances in my first 1.23 run alone.

not just rebels, standard occupations will cause surprise hostility. This also killed a critical alliance for me this patch...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

To be fair, the OP didn't explain those details. I asked the question because I wanted to know more, not because I was trying to make a rhetorical point.

He did specifically say "take land my ally doesn't care about", then proceeded to say that transferring it to the subject causes a huge malus. He also said it should be "copy pasted from the WYP code".

Asking "why should you get immunity to WYP via subjects" when he literally just said he wanted WYSP for subjects to be identical to WYP for the overlord is strange.

Also, I consider this bugged and it is a different one from what atwix describes. It is not new, either. Subjects have long been treated differently than their overlord for WYP calculations (far more punitively), which is inane and nonsensical. 100 trust alliances shouldn't be breaking over the sole fact that you transferred land to a subject instead of keeping it.

 

[babuchas1]

It is one of the most annoying and silly modifiers in the game, and it's been there for so long time that I can't even understand how it was not fixed after so many patches and paid expansions...