"Want's your provinces" logic?

[新人工作人员]

what's this mod? the flag looks good

 

[anomanderus]

Also historical if you have read Nestors chronicle. Early Rus rulers really had some southern ambitions. And the best way to become the third rome is to destroy the previous one yourself.

That makes no sense at all

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

I was playing as Milan and fought real hard to have control of most of the Northern Italy. France was my friend, and sometimes ally, for some 40 years and in around 1500 they decide they want Savoie.
Now what baffled me is that I couldn't sell it to them, not even for 0 ducats. What's the logic behind that? Later they got in a coalition war against me and ruined the fruitful relations we've had.
If they want a province, shouldn't you just be able to give it to them. It makes no sense. Why have a war when you can have it for free, AND, keep good relations?
Absolutely baffling. I hadn't played single player since one of the first patches and these weird AI problems never seem to get properly fixed.

Maybe the province was not an accepted culture (i don´t remenber) or you were already rivals? Anyway that is something that probably only the devs can answer. Here is another example of an AI wanting my province the day after they gave it to me (seems legit):

 

[Yuri_Kenobi]

While it makes sense for Sweden to break an alliance with Norway if they got the mission to take Jämtland, it's completely silly in many cases.

In my current game as Portugal, my ally Spain, and later France, broke their alliance with me because they "want your provinces: -200". Simply because I had two provinces in the indian coast, and they grabbed the mission to get a presence there. But there are plenty of provinces to choose from, it doesn't make any sense for them to throw away their longstanding alliance with a neighbouring country when they could easily grab a province from an indian nation. :blink:

 

[Searry]

That means that your province(s) fall into a group of provinces that the AI wants to conquer.

It makes perfect sense.

If France views Milan as its long term conquest plan, then France shouldnt want to ally Milan, and actively help Milan get stronger.

Without this, you could ally any AI country you pick and choose.

So does this mean you have to keep buffer states if you want to keep an AI an ally? Can you vassalise Savoy for example and still keep relations with France?

That's exactly what the house of Savoy did when they expanded in Italy.

That happened in the 19th century.

Maybe the province was not an accepted culture (i don´t remenber) or you were already rivals?

It was neither.

Silly but historical. In Italian Wars, it became true.

The game is alt history after you unpause. Still why would France first support me and then suddenly want to destroy me? It seems like the AI has no grand plans really.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

While it makes sense for Sweden to break an alliance with Norway if they got the mission to take Jämtland, it's completely silly in many cases.

In my current game as Portugal, my ally Spain, and later France, broke their alliance with me because they "want your provinces: -200". Simply because I had two provinces in the indian coast, and they grabbed the mission to get a presence there. But there are plenty of provinces to choose from, it doesn't make any sense for them to throw away their longstanding alliance with a neighbouring country when they could easily grab a province from an indian nation. :blink:

This is the main source of "wants your provinces" that isn't really defensible. The AI attaches a greater negative weight to a province across the world over a mission it can complete without breaking the alliance than it does on an adjacent province with six times the base tax in its culture group. Mission-based province desire is over-weighted to a gross extent over logical expansion avenues.

If the AI otherwise doesn't see the player as a juicy target yet, it shouldn't break alliances over provinces across the world. It should break alliances when it's ready to betray the player and take his land. The current logic for this mission creates arbitrary hatred between nations (including AI nations) without improving its performance and should be removed. It's roughly as sensible as ignoring the Caribbean to colonize Siberia as Portugal. Yes, the AI will do it, but it's idiotic and self-defeating.

 

[stormeagle449]

That happened in the 19th century.

Not really. Savoy never really had any ambition to rule Italy, until France became a major power after its victory in the HYW. That made Savoy expand over the Piedmont area, and to do that they had to continously switch allegiances between France and Spain, since those two powers had massive influence over the peninsula. Compared to the XIX century Kingdom of Sardinia, the old Duchy was forced to use shrewd diplomacy if it wanted to survive.

 

[Nabrotleon]

The logic of "Want's yor provinces" ist not so good, I have seen asia-opms they want over 200thres provinces of my word-empire, and this not rarely.

 

[Neoton]

There's an argument that Osel could be considered strategic - it's coastal, on the continental side of the Baltic Sea, and in an upstream trade node.

It's random. Some months it's like -9 and others -90, I actually managed to ally them and then they just went back to hating me about Osel and broke the alliance.

 

[Rey]

That sounds very silly.

Well I managed to take most of the peninsula without having any war with France or Austria, so not that 'silly'. Austria got the 'Claims to Northern Italy' mission often, and France wanted my vassal Savoy, giving a -200 modifier. Fortunately, not at the same time, and none bothered to go to war with each because of my land.

There's some historical basis, like others posted, during the Italian wars people often backstabbed and shifted alliances.

 

[Searry]

Well I managed to take most of the peninsula without having any war with France or Austria, so not that 'silly'. Austria got the 'Claims to Northern Italy' mission often, and France wanted my vassal Savoy, giving a -200 modifier. Fortunately, not at the same time, and none bothered to go to war with each because of my land.

There's some historical basis, like others posted, during the Italian wars people often backstabbed and shifted alliances.

You are missing the point. I'm sure this kind of a thing happens in other places too. The original point of my opening post was the sillines of the AI not wanting to "buy" a province for free and keep the alliance. It was in my and their interest to have several wars against Austria in the future.