Want to see the AI cheating? Have a look at this picture.

[peterhoi3]

So, I play as Italy, I control both Gibraltar and Suez, however the
English ships go back and forth through Gibraltar strait. I suppose they do the same in Suez, I have not checked. I guess the US are doing the same
with some of the ships they have in the Mediterranean.

This is not the only cheating I have noticed. A few days ago I saw some Russian units moving inside an encirclement where they had been for months. And no, there was no indutrial province nor victory point nor anything that could explain it.

 

[dog player]

In the pics i see you are controlling just the north side,maybe that's the reason?Not saying it's right for them to pass,but smth to think about.

 

[unmerged(144305)]

From my understanding of the province control definitions, Gibralter controls access to the Med/Atlantic entry point.

The screenshot is clearly 'cheating' (though it's probably a mistake, and it might have something to do with one of the 1.3 changes that 'fixed a bug that caused fleets to get stuck')

Nice catch. Good to know. Thanks for posting it.

 

[menasure]

looks like it's bugged again then.
however a blocker is a flawed concept anyway for gibraltar. you can't really seal that strait off, except by patrolling with ships because it's a strait without a lock.

 

[TheDarkside]

What about AI convoys - are they getting through the strait?

 

[Grimlin]

Last time I played as Italy I saw the same happening, suddenly all GB ships vanished from the med. When I looked up for them with nofog they were sailing around Africa. They should have been trapped however...

Nevertheless, they do not return, so maybe ships can leave through the straits but can't enter?
I haven't seen a single enemy ship in the Med after taking the two straits, neither GB nor US for two years.

What about AI convoys - are they getting through the strait?

No.

 

[unmerged(171774)]

From my understanding of the province control definitions, Gibralter controls access to the Med/Atlantic entry point.

The screenshot is clearly 'cheating' (though it's probably a mistake, and it might have something to do with one of the 1.3 changes that 'fixed a bug that caused fleets to get stuck')

Nice catch. Good to know. Thanks for posting it.

In all my 1.2 games AI can sail (and send convoys) despite of gibraltar, suez, copenhagen etc. controlled.

I'm thinking it is feature, not bug :rofl:

 

[peterhoi3]

I reloaded as UK and USA to see what is going on. As UK, you let everything as it is and that ship does the same thing, crossing Gibraltar. The ship is under Gibraltar HQ, when you elimitate HQ orders and instead command the ship directly to move somewhere beyond Gibraltar, the movement is not permitted. So the rule exists, and this seems more a bug than a cheat. When you load as USA, all ships and units in the Mediterranean appear to be unsupplied, and there are no supply routes to the islands they control. This doesn´t prevent these ships to patrol the sea and fight the Italian navies.
All this is very annoying, you play thinking there are rules, but those rules are not respected, it is a total gamebreaker for me, rather than anything else.

 

[unmerged(170877)]

Well... just imagine that the Brits have sabotaged your radar on Gilbritar, sneaking ships through here and there?

Like Menasure said, it would take all the Italian ships to patrol the strait in real life to have a decent blockade. Controlling the strait by land meant you only had air coverage.

 

[Targor]

it is a total gamebreaker for me, rather than anything else.

Me too, I was already very annoyed of this in HoI II because so there's no need to take these (theoretically) decisive points.

 

[Invader_Canuck]

I personally don't see why Gibraltar should be this instant and automatic shut down of the sea lane.

The reason why Gibraltar was a difficult point to move ships through, was because of the FLEET that was stationed there.

It is a funnel, a point where you KNOW if the enemy wants access it has to travel through, so naturally as one of the most powerful navies in the world you concentrate force there and effectively shut it down.

If Germany or Italy had taken Gibraltar in WW2, it would not have been the same "no-go" zone that it was under British control. The Brits with their massive naval superiority could have sailed through with a show of force at their leisure.

Gibraltar still functions exactly as it should if you control it. Station a large fleet there, set them to patrol in the immediate vicinity. You will interdict any ships trying to run through. Put some air support on top of that and you're looking even better.

If anything the rule should be removed entirely, but then again the AI may not station a strong fleet to control the strait and as such it is one of those details we have to fudge on to get better gameplay rather than completely fair gameplay.

 

[DarkSoul1984]

I personally don't see why Gibraltar should be this instant and automatic shut down of the sea lane.

The reason why Gibraltar was a difficult point to move ships through, was because of the FLEET that was stationed there.

Actually....

Europe and Africa are separated by 14.24 km (7.7 nautical miles) of ocean at the strait's narrowest point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_of_gibraltar

It would appear to be a complete cock block to enemy task forces even without naval superiority as you can actually use artillery and air power to close off the strait.

 

[unmerged(144305)]

Actually....

Europe and Africa are separated by 14.24 km (7.7 nautical miles) of ocean at the strait's narrowest point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_of_gibraltar

It would appear to be a complete cock block to enemy task forces even without naval superiority as you can actually use artillery and air power to close off the strait.

This!
It doesn't much force to make any ships passing through this point take massive broadside damage. The point is that given technology of the time, it's asking for obliteration to try to sail past Gibraltar when it's enemy occupied.

I don't know how many of you played tabletop wargames like World in Flames or Third Reich, but it was a given that if Gibraltar is not friendly controlled, there was no passage from the Med/Atlantic there.

This game needs to (and indeed, intended to) reflect that.

 

[Lares]

Not sure about this. German subs even managed to path the strait of Gibraltar with half the Royal Navy patrolling there. Without a proper fleet patrolling, it should be no special problem to pass trough the strait. Coastal artillery was never so effective to stop any naval movement at ten or more kilometers distance. I'm not sure, if this is WAD, but it makes sense to me, that controlling Gibraltar alone is not sufficient to stop any passage of the strait. This is completely different from more narrow straits like at the Bosporus or even a channel like Suez or Panama.

 

[Invader_Canuck]

Actually....

Europe and Africa are separated by 14.24 km (7.7 nautical miles) of ocean at the strait's narrowest point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_of_gibraltar

It would appear to be a complete cock block to enemy task forces even without naval superiority as you can actually use artillery and air power to close off the strait.

You actually believe that had the Royal Navy lost Gibraltar to the Germans or Italians, it couldn't have forced a passage through the straight?

I think you're delusional.

Are you aware of the actual armaments at Gibraltar?

1939-1940 you are looking at 8x 9.2 inch guns, 2x 9.2 inch howitzers and 8x 6 inch guns.

I believe by the end of the war the number of 9.2 inch guns increased to 12 or 14.

Now, I don't know, but I imagine if the British had lost Gibraltar, first they would have DESTROYED ALL OF THESE gun emplacements. So what you are left with is an airfield (late war).

Even if these gun batteries remained, they would have been easily destroyed by a serious action from the Royal Navy. They would have had to contend with air attack, but depending on what the British brought they could have neutralized nearby air fields before even commencing the attack.

So yes. To actually hold the straight from a major naval power you needed ships present.

 

[General War]

Not sure about this. German subs even managed to path the strait of Gibraltar with half the Royal Navy patrolling there.

Yes they did. But a lot of them were sunk during the attempt. And not a single one managed to get out.

You can't realy compare subs with the surface ships. One U-boat infiltrate Scapa Flow and sunk a battleship. Would you try to do it with a surface ship?

 

[Nabobalis]

This is either a bug. I know in 1.2 if you right clicked for a fleet to move through the strait, it wouldn't unless you assigned it a mission and then it would ignore the restriction.

 

[Federkiel]

Not sure about this. German subs even managed to path the strait of Gibraltar with half the Royal Navy patrolling there. Without a proper fleet patrolling, it should be no special problem to pass trough the strait. Coastal artillery was never so effective to stop any naval movement at ten or more kilometers distance. I'm not sure, if this is WAD, but it makes sense to me, that controlling Gibraltar alone is not sufficient to stop any passage of the strait. This is completely different from more narrow straits like at the Bosporus or even a channel like Suez or Panama.

Well, actually the SUBs only got in. Going through the strait was a one way ticket because of the water flow. The upper layers of water went out of the med while the lower ones went in. A submerged SUB wouldn't be able to go out undetected because of the extremely slow speed it would do against the water flow. Being surfaced would have been their sure death as there was a constant chain of DDs carefully guarding it.

Btw. the Italian SUBs operating in the Atlantic in history had been sent out of the med before the DoW while Italy was allowed to pass the straits still.


The ingame phenomenon must be a bug. Maybe the fleet had been sent out before the movement order would be blocked by you taking Gib.
Admittedly that does not explain how AI Italy manages to not be quickly destroyed in their Eastern African holdings after they enter the war. I have seen them holding some ground there well 2 years into the war. Needless to say, Suez and Gib were in UK hands still. Checking sometimes, i even observed that the Italians had taken some lost territory back from UK and FRA. They sat in the center of their annexed Ethopia.

 

[menasure]

in normal conditions anyone holding gibraltar would have a big advantage and nobody would expect a pick-nick passing through even with naval superiority. let's say it would be difficult to pass but not impossible. submarines were of course less detectable by nature and any ship would only attempt a passage under the most favorable conditions like dense fog, moonless nights etc...
occasionally some could pass the blockade and we've even admirals with the 'blockade runner' trait for this kind of risky actions.
nevertheless that's not how it's designed in game so it's a bug but maybe one which adds a touch of realism... if only the rules would be the same for both AI and human player and if a human controlled AI would effectively use those ships and airplanes to patrol

 

[quetzilla]

I believe this was fixed in 1.3, or was this using 1.3?