Wales - Why King not Prince?

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Is there some game balance reason for this ahistorical creation of a "Kingdom of Wales"? In reality, Wales has always had a prince, not a king - its rulers always described themselves as "Prince" (tywysawc) and not as "King" (brenin). If there isn't a reason for it, the title should be changed in the next release.

 

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Only kingdom of Byzantium has a special title Emperor. Prince, as seen in the game, is an orthodox version of duke.

 

[Havard]

Is there some game balance reason for this ahistorical creation of a "Kingdom of Wales"? In reality, Wales has always had a prince, not a king - its rulers always described themselves as "Prince" (tywysawc) and not as "King" (brenin). If there isn't a reason for it, the title should be changed in the next release.

The same could be said of several other titles. Some are even deliberately "misnamed" (like the "Dukes" of Toulouse and Champagne) to better fit into the three-tier title system...

 

[Quarto]

If the King of Wales was the Prince of Wales, the bug forum would see no end of bug reports along the lines of "I'm the King of England, but when I tried to vassalise the Prince of Wales, it said a King cannot vassalise a Prince! What's wrong?"

(actually, no, there would be no such reports, since only the player ever forms the Kingdom/Principality of Wales... but you get the idea, it would be confusing in the context of the three-tier system)

 

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(actually, no, there would be no such reports, since only the player ever forms the Kingdom/Principality of Wales...

Not quite on topic, but I HAVE seen the AI set itself up as King of Wales, with no aid on my side.

 

[Pseudodragon]

Not quite on topic, but I HAVE seen the AI set itself up as King of Wales, with no aid on my side.

I've seen AI Kings of Wales too.

 

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In my current game one of the Dukes who was a vassel of the King of england Declared himself King of Wales, unfortionately for England that Duke was a major landholder so Wales consists of all the provinces of wales, 2 pieces of Ireland and about half of England.

 

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In reality the king (or queen) of England is king of Wales, even while the male heir is called "prince of Wales." So when/if any person gets the Wales title in the game, king of Wales makes sense.

 

[Havard]

In reality the king (or queen) of England is king of Wales, even while the male heir is called "prince of Wales."

Not really. Wales has never been a "kingdom"...

So when/if any person gets the Wales title in the game, king of Wales makes sense.

It makes sense because King is the highest title, and the Princes of Wales fits with that.

 

[Taear]

It's perfectly feasable that if the domains of the welsh were united, the person who did that would declare himself "King Of Wales", it just never happened. It kind of goes along with Arabia, Syria and Persia - sure, they were never really united under a Crusader kingdom like Jerusalem was, but it could theoretically have happened.

And, as has been already said, if the ruler was a Prince, he'd have the same ranking game-wise as a duke.

 

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I think i see what you're saying....you just want a custome title for duke ofwales to be prince. Is that it?

 

[Rio]

I think I agree that's what's being asked for. I would also like to see that. It is purely aesthetic, of course. The position is one of Duke in game terms. There are other occurrences like that within the game.

 

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I was reading on a book the other day that many Welsh nobles came to Edward I (Longshanks, the one in Braveheart) asking him for a Prince who would speak neither French nor English. Edward showed them his baby son, the future Edward II, and from thereafter every eldest son of the King of England became Prince of Wales....

 

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Is there some game balance reason for this ahistorical creation of a "Kingdom of Wales"? In reality, Wales has always had a prince, not a king - its rulers always described themselves as "Prince" (tywysawc) and not as "King" (brenin). If there isn't a reason for it, the title should be changed in the next release.

Dark Age petty rulers in Wales were usually referred to as brenhin (Mod.W. brenin). The use of tywyssawc (Mod.W. tywysog) was diplomatically forced upon rulers of Wales later on, by the dominance of the English kings. The 'Duke' of Gwynedd is a representation of the tywyssawc stage of rulership. If any Welsh ruler had become strong enough to defy the English and claim parity of rank, he would have used the title brenhin, i.e. 'king'.