Wake Up!

[King]

First of all, and most importantly, I want to thank King for his responses. I especially liked the more formally-toned responses that did not address any particular individual's behavior. And King has really done Paradox well by staying in this topic for so many pages and continuing to answer response. Bravo!

I saw this topic had the Paradox staff stamp on it and I read the entire thing... and I was not disappointed. It was really nice to get the inside insight. I opened up tabs to specific posts I liked from Kings, maybe in a moment I will chance a response to those.

Unfortunately, we all know that forum's do not moderate themselves, so I support the moderating that also had to go on in this topic, but that's the same as I can find on any other topic I just wish King could spend any little precious vacation time (well, first on vacation! go have fun!) that he spares here more so on this insight rather than admonishing people for their behavior.

[edit: @LoneGunman. I agree that the tone some people take with the Paradox staff is truly frightful! Especially considering the points you mention (him taking his personal time to post here, etc.)]


Secondly, I am an [at present] unregistered user of the game (surprise! oh you already knew that...), and I never expected to be thrown the keys to the forum as such (limited access is fine by me), but I really dislike the disrespect shown to unregistered users without the merit of a "fair trial" so-to-speak. I have no idea who pirates these games; that personally makes me sick. I mean, it even makes me sick that the game has been on sale for like 10 bucks and I bought it for $30, even though I should still feel grateful because some people were paying like 50€ for it. And yes, I get suspicious at some individuals, but I keep my comments to myself.

Really, this forum should be more embracing of new individuals. How can the community grow if potential buyers stop by and are told to stop talking since they haven't registered their game? And again, I own this and EU3:C and I don't want people to mistake a person who is unregistered as a pirate by default. That is unfair.


[edit: @John-SJ and "EVE" off-topic posting. try X3:TC for a non-subscription, EVE-like experience. My favorite game... (see my sig)]

People come here, people post, and registration is not a requirement. However the person with the unregistered game I took issue with started to imply all sorts of hidden agendas with the patch and things like that. I draw the line at that.

 

[King]

King, not all unhappy players are also unresonable. I, for one, will be perfectly able to tell when the game has improved to a point to be fun again, and be satisfied with it. Even then there will be things that I am not happy with, but I will be honest enough to say that the game has reached a good development point and live with it. For the time being I am anxiously waiting for that moment.
By the way thanks a lot for your comments in this thread and MERRY CHRISTMAS.

That's not a problem, but I am trying to be honest here and don't want to build up unrealistic expectations for the patch. I believe it will improve the game, I believe it will make it more fun. However what I do not want you all thinking that it will suddenly solve every single niggle you have with game. If I let people think that then I could be having a fantastic time come patch day.

 

[King]

In an effort to draw this topic back to the really cool comments, I would like to ask about these aspects of the AI. People, probably the OP included, are reacting harshly to the present AI, but I was under the impression was that Paradox initially wanted to design a generic AI that would be used for every nation and would automatically optimize for that country, whoever it was. If I am not mistaken, it was supposed to be much more adaptable to new countries than, for example, the HOI2.**

I am sure that SOME nation-specific scripting had to be added to make WW2 start off at least somewhat historical. But with the new little bugs found in the game (like the two you mentioned, like England's defense), is the proposed solution to prop-up individual nation's AI to fix these things, or do you go back to the drawing board and figure out where the generic AI failed?

(I also want to applaud Paradox for this approach, it is exactly the same approach I take professionally -- go for the ideal, and then add prop-up fixes when the ideal shows its imperfections)

**If this is completely wrong, kindly ignore my question.

The proposed solution is to fix the generic AI. If the British AI should be abandoning the chanel islands because it is a lost cause then there are probably other situations where other AIs should be doing the same. So we identify a set of paramaters that define a lost cause then tell the AI to withdraw. Only should that fail will resort to hard coded scripting.

 

[King]

While improving the generic AI is a great goal, I feel that there are reasons to have some slightly varied AIs.

The UK and Germany both having the same Naval AI wouldn't make sense for one.

Or the Japanese and the Germans having the same Army AI.

And unfortunately, I don't think that the generic AI is at a level yet where it can determine as Germany that the only way it can successfully fight the Royal Navy is by commerce raiding and u-boats, and that the UK AI would recognize that it has naval superiority against Germany and use that to successfully blockade Germany and prevent a Sea Lion from occurring.

Hell, the Germans shouldn't even be trying a Sea Lion unless they've somehow achieved a better than average upper hand in the naval war to begin with.

Well I am not an expert of the how the AI works, you'll see the theatre AI start asking for submarines. It does this because it knows* that there are large number of enemy convoys near by. Thus it wants submarines to go attack them. Thus the German theatre AI will generate a much higher number of submarine requests that the opposing British threatre AI. So generic, if done well, can give you want. However we are always looking to improve this.


* through strange AI powers not properly explained to me

 

[King]

I'm no expert either, but it seems hard to account for every possibility within the confines of a single generic AI.

The AI does have steering scripts to aid. So the German AI will be told to prepare for war with Poland for example, that is a strategic decision that we are going to froce the AI into so we give it some assistance in doing this. However the principals for attacking and defending say in land are the same. The AI alters its prefered assets according to the situation, e.g. the Italain AI likes mountian troops to watch the rench frontier because of their combat bonuses. However we feel two things are true, one we can get a lot of good out of the generic AI approach, with a little help. Two that there are still further things we could do with it.

 

[King]

The thing about the Channel Islands is that it's actually a pretty good place to defend, if you want a fight. You've got only one province that can attack you and that's across a strait, and your airbases and ports are close at hand. I think the UK AI is right to try and hold it. The German AI should probably just guard the strait and bomb convoys in the Channel. But to do that the German AI would need to understand that taking the CI doesn't gain them anything, and I don't have a good way to reduce that to an algorithm.

From what I have seen the German AI will, sooner or later, win. Since there is no where to retreat those guys defending it are goners. This whipes out most of troops set to defend the UK, paving the way for Sea Lion. Yes it will cost the Germans dear because of its defensibility but it is well worth it to strike a blow against Britain of that size.

 

[King]

Hi

I played as the Soviet Union starting in 1936 (Patch 1.3). There was no German invasion of the Soviet Union. And I played until 1945. So I saved at 1945. And then went back into the saved game as the UK. German was still trying to take the channel islands in 1945. Super stacks on both sides.

I applied the channel island mod. Played a new game as Soviet Union. Germany invaded the USSR in April 1941.

I have stopped playing HOI3, after reading about the USSR manpower being much less in 1941. If you start in the1936 campaign. Rather than playing the 1941 campaign. (Would be interested to know if you start in 1936, do all nations have less Man Power by 1941 relative to a 1941 campaign start?)

However I am looking forward to playing again once the new patch is out. Frustrated but optimistic with the game

Nice of King to spend time answering questions on Xmas eve.

Manpower is on our list of things to work on. There is a mnapower tweak in Beta testing at the moment, we'll see if it does the job. Your super stack problem is an interesting one. I'll flag this up to Doomdark, because either the British troops should have serious supply problems meaning the AI is not evaluating supply properly, or the AI is not doing enough to bomb those convoys.

 

[King]

One small detail that would certainly help the AI along would be to tweak the auto-assign generals feature.

Currently the AI just assigns whoever it feels like to any division with no regard for their traits.

Would be nice to see Panzer Leaders actually more inclined to be commanding Panzer Divisions.

I'll put it on the list of things to look at.

 

[King]

While you're here King,

Were you considering adding any events or decisions in the next patch?

Not really, that is down our list of things to do.

 

[King]

The problem with taking the time to answer all your questions on HoI3 is finding the time. My days at work are packed, if I am not working Victoria 2, I testing HttT, although now I am starting to test out the changes in the 1.04 version of HoI3. However it is something I wanted to do, you guys deserve it. So I make some time on my holidays to chat to you all.

 

[King]

Most game communities are often quite grateful with responses from devs. It really is quite amazing the difference a few posts here and there can make.

"Hi guys, we realise that X is a problem, or that people are not quite happy with Y at the moment. In the next patch we will be looking at doing the following..... etc. While we hear and acnowledge the complaints reguarding Z, we will not be making chages to it because .... The following bugs have been fixed.... We're still working on what's causing the problems to .... ... " you get the idea.

Just getting some honest feedback and some insight into the steps that are being taken to improve the game really does wonders to boost people's confidence in the game and the game's developers.

So thank you King for spending the time to respond. I'd imagine that a day or two spent communicating with the community and helping to put their concerns at ease is time well spent... even if doing so is at the cost of delaying the deployment of the patch by an additional few days.

Well I put your concerns at rest on one thing. This is not going delay the patch. It is Christmas day, I am back home in Scotland definately not working on a patch.

 

[King]

It is one thing to say that hearts of Iron 3 on release was not what it could of been. I read the forum I know that you as a fan base were not 100% happy. However it is quite another to say that we planned Hearts of Iron 3 to be this way from day 1. That comment I do take issue with. What I can say is that we haven't give up on the game, there is definately another patch in the works.

 

[King]

And the good people on this forum appreciate that. Showing that Paradox cares is a good thing indeed. Enjoy your time off from the job.

I hope that Hoi3 1.4 will iron out the remaining serious issues so that everything at least works as intended. Even so, if 1.4 achieves that, Hoi3 still needs an expansion to really shine IMHO.

It needs more chrome and flavour (more events, decisions, etc.), for it feels too sterile right now. I also hope an expansion will try to adress the sandbox issue. No historical straightjacket but plausible deviations. Right now it is too much of a fantasy trip for my liking. And last but not least, the AI could do with some serious tweaking.

I have not read anything on plans for an expansion, but I expect there will be expansions just like for EU3. I hope so.

The Great Leader, Fredrik II, promised an expansion for HoI3 as long ago as about the 3rd developer diary. So one expansion is pretty much a given. Although first there needs to be a patch, to make sure you are actually paying for an expansion.

 

[King]

they just released an expansion for eu3, so they are probably working on patching etc. once major bugs have been ironed out, they will patch hoi3

No we are already working on a patch for HoI3. I was doing some testing on it last week.

 

[King]

Still, the fact remains that Paradox released the game too early and none of the 'fanbase contacters' seem to know or want to tell why it was released so early. Understandable, cuase there is no good explanation for it but it would have saved Paradox all the trouble of having to answer hard questions or having to work in his free time to test another patch that eventually doesn't really differ anyway. There's a good word for this: mismanagement! Parallels with the financial disasters caused by banks? Anyway, shame on Paradox!

I tell you I wish there were parallels with the banks, do you have any idea what a multi billion pound government bail out would do for HoI3? Perhaps we exagerate just a little?

 

[King]

yea really a big thanks to you king for replying to your coustumers.
Seriously tho you owe it to us. We brought a game from you that has been unplayable for some time now, dont know bout you but 450 sek is quite alot of money for some people.

Seems to me that we should be grateful for you beeing here and replyning to our thread but shouldnt that be obvious to you as a employee for paradox?

If we sold unfinished products in my line of work there would be no work.
If you by something you expect it to work dont you?

I am not asking you to be grateful, all I am asking is for you to be civil. If you don't want me to take the time when I am holiday to do this, this all you have to do is say.

 

[King]

And King said that the game will be patched first to make sure all of the already implemented elements are working properly before an expansion comes out.

Plus no one actually forces you to buy expansions.

 

[King]

A comment, and please don't take this as an attack.

HoI was releaseed, and went through six patches. Support was great, and we worked with all the problems because of Paradox's history of support and updates shown with Europa and Vicky. Somewhere along this time Paradox obtained business partners and appeared to alter their business model.

HOI2 was released as a great new version of HOI, and had several patches. Then, to the dismay of the "fan base", the "Doomsday expansion" was released. It wasn't much more than the next patch. Patches for the "original HOI2" ceased, forcing you to purchase "Doomsday" if you wanted any game improviements. After two "Doomsday" patches the "Armageddon Expansion" turned out to be a repeat of the doomsday scenario. one final patch was released. Essentially the same game but you were forced to purchase the game three times to stay updated.

With HOI3 we now have a new model. Most sales appear to be online, and you have to pay for sprite packs and sound packs. No hardcopy manual. One would hope the cycle would change. It may be a good marketing model, but it disallusions long time PI product users / supporters.

I shelled out for HOI2 three times and would rather see an "Expansion" for HOI3 that IS an expansion rather than an update called one. I support Paradox both financially and commentwise, but can see where all these comments come from. As paradox's support changes so must my view of Paradox Interactive.

Also please look into "copy protection" for your products. The game seems to have appeared on pirate sites virtually the same day that you relased it. This fact also disallusions those whom purchase your products.

All the HoI 1 patchs were pretty much done by a single programmer working part time. The HoI3 1.01 patch had the full development team working on it. The 1.04 patch has 3 programmers working full time on it, for a week already. So although the number of patches our games get has dropped, the amount of time we actually devote to patching is up. Also rather than going through a number of small patches we are aiming for the big one, fix everything we can and the aim is you won't need another patch (want one perhaps, but that is a different question). With 1.03 we thought we had it, I think it went thourgh 9 interations as a public Beta to fix the things (see the tech support forum), you as a community wanted. Not quite there yet, so we aim for 1.04, once we have an RC we will probably again throw it out to public beta to see if we are there.

I agree whole heartedly with you expansion comment. An expansion should be an expansion. Look at the game, go back to features that were cut from the original design, look at areas which can be improved, but not fixing bugs. Although I'll be honest if once we are patched and the expansion goes into development if we find a CTD we will fix for the expansion, it is silly to ship a product with a known CTD in the name of ideological purity.

The sad fact is that games will always be pirated and no matter how good the copy protection is, it will always be broken. What good copy protection gives you is a few days (at best) of pirate free sales, and in return you incovinence your paying customers for ever. So we do not go down that route, why punish you for something you haven't done? We prefer to go down the game resgistration route. Tell us you are paying customer so we know. When you post ideas and suggestion we know this is something that the group of people who buy our games want. Get access to the tech support forum without being jammed up by people who haven't paid. Post your bugs in the bug reporting forum, we want to know what annoys those who buy our games, not those who pirate our games.

 

[King]

All in all it has been a worthwhile expierence. It is all very well not being 100% happy with the game, but there have been posts in this trhead where people detail specific issues for us to look at. Always good to know.

 

[King]

I can't say that I'm real impressed either. I purchased the new Mac version of HOI 3 for Christmas and it locks up on a fairly regular basis. I cannot find the electronic manual, I assume it came with one, but I sure can't seem to find it. The Paradox site isn't real helpful, because I need to register the software and off course, I don't know how to register it, as the code provided on the download certainly doesn't match up with the the number of spaces/characters needed to register the game. At this point, I'm trying to send a French transport to pick up some some overseas troops as I have a feeling that they might come in handy when Germany misbehaves. Naturally, I can't get the transport to leave port. Maybe I need to see if all my planes are grounded as well? I probably should start a new thread, but I don't have rights to do that so, this seems like as good a place to complain as any. Maybe HOI2 or football makes sense today.

The Mac conversion isn't ours it is a seperate company. Not sure which one it is, but they are probably your first port of call here.