Wake Up!

[King]

After reading your last post, yes.

Let's pick this post as an example here, I said much earlier in this thread that you are to think before you post and this is a prime example of why you should. Personal attacks are against the forum rules, so calling someone an idiot is classed as a personal attack. So we had all better start playing nice or this thread will go off to the place where threads go to die.

 

[King]

You should still listen to my post, which I spent a min or 2 writing for some worthwhile feedback for you and PI. I just haven't got around to registering yet. I want to add a sig so probably do it in next few days.

You haven't registered HOI3, so should we be listening to you? ohhhhhh burn

I did read your post, I just did not reply to it.

 

[King]

I'm on the same boat.

What really surprised me is the fact that PI actually had a poll to see if people wanted ANOTHER EU3 Expansion after they'd already assumed that the game was complete, and when enough people voted in favor, they actually set about making another expansion for the game.

Other companies would have just started cranking out the next standalone $60 game.

Speaking of which, how much life does the Clausewitz Engine have left in it King, if I may be so bold?

Would it be correct to assume a new engine would be developed for future titles like EU4?

I know a new engine with multi-core processor support would be welcomed, especially for games on the scale of HOI3 that eat up a lot of CPU power.

No idea how many games, but the Clausewitz Engine is still being improved even now. As we have added more functionality to it support Victoria 2. We also have imporved bits and pieces of it to help perfromance with HoI3.

 

[King]

Fair enough, but given that the the central theme of the very topic of this thread is to insult the people who enjoy the game I'm not sure what do you want us to discuss here while being nice and on topic.

Just to quote the opening post to back up what I am saying...

Well that was before my little warning, so we will let that one slide. I also saw the topic as an ideal way to give you, who do enjoy the game, a bit more information. So it is not all bad.

 

[King]

Well I wouldn't mind seeing some new unique games being developed with the Clausewitz Engine, but for sequels that are already on Clausewitz, I'm sure there will be a desire for something newer.

I guess it all boils down to the balancing act of when it is no longer practical to update and rewrite part of the current engine and just more beneficial to reinvent the wheel, but make it rounder and out of better materials.

Well there was Rome, but yes you are right sequals have their place if you have good material to build one with. A sequal should not be a 1.5 version of the game. If you don't have the mateitial then it is time tackle something new.

 

[King]

Sorry this is late in coming, but Im in New Zealand ...
King - I actually think its great that you have spent so much time to debate all this, its made a very interesting thread.
I do know where you are coming from with this statement, yes you tried to offer a new version of HOI. As you said, you perhaps pushed too far.
IMO, I reckon with the fanbase, about half of them wanted a complete rewrite and to push the boundaries, but like me, the other half were looking more for evolution - such as AoD.

With regards to evolution, heres a point in case. Football manager. Sure they've been heavily critisied in the past for throwing out a yearly version of the game. However, that has been a gradual evolution over 15 years or so. Its now a really remarkable game. There has never really been a major overhaul. Personally, I think when a developer has a concept, they really ought to try to evolve it instead of throwing it away ever few years to do a complete re-write.

What I wanted was just expansion all round. Better Diplomacy, Espionage, more units - and really just better balance to it all.

Looking at it from your side though, a lot of the changes couldnt have been done by evolution ( new map / command structure etc ). I guess now we have the choice. HOI3 or AoD, so in effect we can now all be satisfied.

Well in its defence Football Manager can always offer something new with every version. This years teams and leagues. We struggle a bit with our games to do that. I mean Hearts of Iron 3 - now with 2009 Nazi Party lineup, just doesn't work.

 

[King]

Yes, and I love Rome, even if it feels a little bottled up in terms of the scope it has compared to the scope it could have had.

With Vae Victis it is certainly a well-polished and finished game for what it tries to do, and a great example of a job well done.

I'd beg of you to steal some of HOI3's boldness and ambition if there ever is another expansion for that particular game.

I can pretty much promise you that anyone who bought Rome and enjoyed it would most certainly shell out $20 for another expansion that can extend the timeline (both forward and back) and extend the map (at least to include all of Alexander's conquests).

After EU3 complete I am going to say nothing about future expansions

 

[King]

fantastic replies and indeed you have every right to challenge what I say, and well done those who have intelligently. i do admire intelligent rebukes.

it is all true what I say, when a man stumbles upon a fact thats meant to be a secret what should he do with it. just ask the Joint Intelligence Committee about that lol

but your equally right i had no intention of providing any proof, that doesnt mean its rubbish, it just means im avoiding harms way. if that means what i say is worthless so be it. were not talking about reporting to 6 here for detonators being smuggled to iran now, just games

but being a fox in the chicken coop as it were, i do enjoy provoking debate, if it makes people think, it makes people perceptions become sharper.

great responses from King and respect for defending paradox here. For me to prove it, well that would require a covert intrusion onto the 11th floor in stockholm or indeed to suite 412 in new york to get access or the subsidiaries.

that was rather above my mission so to speak.

the debates done its job anyway people are thinking about everything that folks have said, some of the replies have been damn good.

thanks for all the informative replies

happy christmas all

agitation in any form is the route to change, to sharpness of the senses- Voltaire

I refer you back to the forum rules

"You will not make posts of illegal nature or posts that detail ways to perform acts of an illegal nature. "

You have made an alligation without providing any proof, this is Defermation of Character and as such leaves you open to legal action. Thus I am asking you to either provide proof of cease posting in this manner. Failure to do both will result in administrative action upto and including a ban. Your duty is not to speak out, your duty is to follow the forum rules. If you don't like HoI3 you can say that, if you won't buy another Paradox product you can say that, but you cannot accuse Paradox of premiditated fraud without proof.

 

[King]

I think the admins might want to do direct responses to posters rather than do such
an over the top threat against a poster. It makes the real appearance of intolerance.
If you do not like what is posted then delete it or edit it, PI owns it. Leaving it up
after such a threat gives is an attempt to spread fear. I posted not a wiildly bad
comment and mine was closed as "unhelpful". I have also been accused by admins of
posting in a manner they found objectionable and yet they posted a response in the
exact same manner as they complained i did. You folks adminster the board. close
it, edit posts, ban folks. threaten them with legal action on a international information
board open to the public (even if privately owned) is ludicrous and shameful. Also very
unlikely and sets you up for countersue. Now the lawyers will pop up! LOL!

I think the admins and PI are really ticked at all the bad press here on HOI3 and the
growing crowd of players really upset with it. We did not design the game (badly),
we did not test it (and it was not correctly tested), we did not release it unfinished (and it is),
PI did. We bought it. We are the customers that keep game companies going.

Again i say i would LOVE to play a complete HOI3 that works. It does not. Are you
going to sue me for saying so? Oh dear me, I shall get another demerit.... I will
also remember how PI behaves on this board the next time i shop for a computer
game. PI will be prominent in my mind when doing so. I expect others feel so as well.

Did you read my post? If you did you sadly failed to coprehend, but don't worry I am patient mood so I will try again. You are paying customer, you don't like HoI3 then say so. You are paying customer you would really like to see X improved for the next patch then say so. I have no problems of that. However our OP has accused Paradox, and thus me, of deliberately seeking to rip you guys off with HoI3, seeking to deliberately release a poor product to "see what we could get away with" to deliberately give you crap because we can. Now that I do take exception to, and personally feel I have the right to do so. So challenged out OP for proof, and he/she/subjecttochange would not do that, this is where I turned round and posted as I did. This is a HoI3 forum which is here for you to comment on HoI3, turning up here and accusing us of victimising you is all rather tradgic, why not grow up a little and stop it?

 

[King]

ps: is KING Johan? Just wondering as it appears (not a complaint but just
noticed)that you mention that the game was yours and you are are Paradox. Just wondering.

No I am definately not Johan. Hearts of Iron 3 credits two people with game design, one is Johan Andersson and the other is Chris King. Guess which one I am?

Edit: However I am a Paradox employee so if you accuse Paradox of something you by association accuse me of it too.

 

[King]

Cool. I haven't accused Paradox of anything. I am just upset like alot of folks
about HOI3. Just comments on a product. Differing opinions. Again if i thought it was a lost cause i would
shut up and stop posting ideas, suggestions, and comments. Silence does little
for anyone.

You do realise we are fighting war we cannot win with the patching process? Not matter how much we imporve performance you'll wish it goes just that little bit faster. Not matter how much we improve the AI, you'll all want to be that little bit better. No matter which tweaks we insert into the alignment system, and do have a couple of good ideas there, you'll wish for a little bit more.

 

[King]

So basically you try to shift the blame from yourself for producing, and failing to fix such a buggy game to the consumers for getting annoyed due to that?

No, what I said is that the next patch will produce fixes for 'such a buggy game' both perfromance and AI. Issues that you the fan base have said you would like to see. All I said is that you will probably want even more.

Edit: Although you are not even a HoI3 owner so I am not sure what you are complaining about here.

 

[King]

those that bought the game got a broken game. Paradox fails to fix the, still fundementally broken (due 2 AI), single player game. KING is saying the fans want too much and tells them to back off. Am I the only one who thinks this kind of logic is strange?

Look is no one is forcing you to buy the game, but it is bit is a bit rich to come in here and complain about it. I mean you hold a strong opinion about a game you don't own, I think that logic is strange.

 

[King]

who said i didn't own it?

The fact that you have no HoI3 icon says you don't.

 

[King]

maybe I don't want to register for some special reasons????

Special reasons????? Really to be honest there are no special reasons why you should not register. Still no one forces you to register but I will waste no more time with you. My time is finite and there are so many people I can listen to, those who register the games get priority.

 

[King]

If Nikita was for real she'd register now just to see King's face after the icon shows up. Since she doesn't do it, it would suggest she's either not that hardcore a hater at all or has nothing to register.



Isn't that a good thing? I mean, we players/community (how do you call us in the office? ) should set the standard high, we should motivate you to do your best and we should provide you with feedback what kind of a game we want HoI3 to become. Reading through the top5 issues thread by Kallocain, you can easily see what's on people's minds when they play the game, where the direction of the axis of desired changes is set, for example you can notice surrender events in every 2nd post there, there's a reason why it's so often mentioned. Paradox' part of the work, something you did brilliantly for EU3 for example (BBB is gone, ping-pong is gone...), is to look at it all, decide what's possible and what's not, bounce it off your own idea for HoI3, make a ranked HOWTO and start working.
Don't judge us harsh for demanding more and more, we're like heroin addicts and we can't control ourselves. We want more product, of better quality and we usually want it right away.

On a sidenote, have you considered posting to the Kallocain's thread? I'd really like to see your (or Johan's, or Doomdark's) top5 issues with HoI3, things that bug you the most when you play it, things you believe should be changed. Would be really good to read.

It's not a bad thing, but there are two types of fixes those that are absolute and those that are relative. Say we have the game crashing when X is happens. We produce a patch and fix the crash. You are always going to be 100% satisfied with this this fix, after all it gives you 100% of what you wanted. Other things like game speed are relative as such we can never ever reach 100% satisfaction here, but what we can do is improve things. You may not be 100% satisfied with the result but you can be happier (I hope), well at least that is the gaol.

 

[King]

Thanks for the feedback here King, it is really appreciated. I do have one question though. I hope you can answer it.

I tried playing the 1943/1944 scenarios (gotterdammerung in hoi2 was my favorite). And the game would slow down really fast even on max speed. While 1.3 did fix pre-war game speed, I still feel that it was really slow while at war.
Can you say anything about this being looked into for 1.4?

We have already done several optimisation for Beta patches and the betas have reported that the game speed has increased. I myself use debug builds which are painfully slow, 1.0 went like lightning for me . They have also reported crashes as well, which we are looking at. I have so far managed to find a couple, which we are aiming to fix in the New Year.

 

[King]

Did you play this game yourself? Now repeat your words. Do you think the game is ok and angry people on this forum are easiy outcrying thankfull ones just unfairly? This game must not have been released before current 1.3 state. I like innovations you made in grand strategy ganre. But seems to me you are too greedy. This game was at the state of beta when released.

P.S.: anyway i would like to pay more if it will change smth

I did play the game extensively during testing. However you are missing the point of the post. Things like AI imrpovements and game speed are not absolutes. It is not like we will suddenly produce an AI that will have the whole forum going this great. What we are aiming for in the next patch is an AI that performs better and although there may be things about the AI that still annoy you, we hope that you will see an improved AI.

 

[King]

The sad thruth is that in most cases YES. Look at Johan's supply thread, people whine about supplies for months now and when finally time comes to show the savegames with bugs to help fix them he gets like two.

I sent him one too.

 

[King]

Hi, (sorry for continuing the OT) I've played EVE Online pretty extensively, I only quit when I was laid off and could no longer justify the monthly expense.

I've also played many of the standard MMO's, EQ, EQ2, WoW, and quite a few others. If you've burned out on these games you'll probably agree, there is much more in common between all of these games than there is unique. Even a brand new MMO will only be interesting for a very short time because very quickly those commonalities float to the surface and the game becomes boring again.

Not so EVE! EVE is not a level based game, but a skill based game. It is also a pure PvP game, some people don't like that and don't last long, but if you can wrap your mind around the EVE mindset it is an incredibly deep and very satisfying game.

If you're interested in EVE, you can get a 2 week (I think) demo and not even give a credit card #. If you like it, convert your trial account to a paid account and you're all set.

Something else that is unique about EVE. There has never been a paid expansion. When you d/l the demo, you d/l the latest version of the game with every expansion included. When the next expansion is released (there is an average of 2 per year) it will d/l automatically the first time you login after it is released.

There is perfectly good Eve thread in the OT forum, why not head over there?