Wake Up!

[delra]

yea really a big thanks to you king for replying to your coustumers.
Seriously tho you owe it to us. We brought a game from you that has been unplayable for some time now, dont know bout you but 450 sek is quite alot of money for some people.

Seems to me that we should be grateful for you beeing here and replyning to our thread but shouldnt that be obvious to you as a employee for paradox?

If we sold unfinished products in my line of work there would be no work.
If you by something you expect it to work dont you?

I don't get people who say this game doesn't work. It works pretty damn well the way it's now. Have you actually played HoI3 recently or just repeat the FUD some other dude wrote in another thread?

I've spent more hours this year with HoI3 than with any other game, maybe except for EU3 which I played a lot in the first half of 2009. And I had quite a choice here since my little bro gets all the big titles for console-heads that are out there. I could be playing freaking Call of Duty now, but I prefer to move those little rectangles around attacking other rectangles instead. There must be something great in HoI3 for me to choose it over all those big games...

 

[synthsia]

It's not a question wearher I want you to reply or not, it sould be obvious.
Coustumer support is essential for any company and the fact that i pay money for a product that infact doesn't work makes me abit upset.

You represent paradox so im asking you know and i hope i get a cinsear awnser.
Why did you sell a game that doesn't work?
Did you not see the major problems it had? And when can i expect it to work?

Btw, i have all the bug problems etc so i just wanna know when i will be able to use the product that i paid for.

 

[synthsia]

delra

It's great that you can play and enjoy your product.
But for me it doens't work. I cant get past 1941 for example so it's not just the horrible AI i actually cant play it past 1941 so maby you can understand that im abit upset by this no?

 

[delra]

Okay, so it's speed, I can understand that even if I can't really empathise having a really good rig here. Still, worth mentioning that devs already promised 1.4 will be a bit faster. Don't expect much though, after all you have 10000 provinces, theatre HQ for each nation, Barbarossa and War in the Pacific going on at the same time, hundreds of ships, weather, planes, all on one core. What do you expect?

What's funny, when I first got EU3 it also seemed a bit slow for me. Now a few years and computers later I can play a whole month of EU3 HttT under a second... I expect the same happen to HoI3...

 

[synthsia]

delra

I dont care about 10000 provinces or theatre HQ's.
I care about actually be able to play.

 

[delra]

So you would prefer HoI3 to be a smaller and less ambitious game, something similar to EU: Rome? :-|

 

[synthsia]

delra

I prefer to be able to play a game that i pay for so if i have to choose between be able to play or not be able to play i choose play ofcourse.

Even if that mean not so many provinces etc. But thats not the point here, paradox made a game that was shipped and sold but was totally broken and i dont accept that and i think no one should.

I read the system recuierments carfully before i bought it and i have a fairly good machine so i thought that it was not going to be any problem for me.

 

[unmerged(183189)]

...Don't expect much though, after all you have 10000 provinces, theatre HQ for each nation, Barbarossa and War in the Pacific going on at the same time, hundreds of ships, weather, planes, all on one core. What do you expect?

I think he, like most people, expect a retail game to run without chronic lag that makes the game unplayable without pausing every time you want to do anything.

While I agree, that on the WHOLE, once all things are considered, it can be argued that the game is not too bad (especially at the 15-30 dollar price ). It has some very strong points about it. But I don't feel that people should be making excuses for the weak points.

In comparison to a lot ( most ) other games around at the moment, the system requirements of Hoi3 are quite high. And even with these requirements met and above them, the game lags. What I would have expected would have been adjustments to the game to prevent the lag. If all the details and complexity in the game makes it lag, remove some, or put in the option to remove some.

Would it have been overly difficult to add a check box to remove weather from the game? Or even one to remove day / night? Or possibly a much simpler less cpu taxing supply system? Maybe 10000 provinces is simply too many for today's standard gaming rigs to handle, and after facing lag issues in the beta this number could have been reduced? Maybe it should have been designed to run on 2 cores? I really don't know what the answer is, I'm not a software developer, but I think it would be a challenge for any of the PI staff to say that they're happy with the state of the game while keeping a straight face.

Perhaps someone should get a thread going where we all give Paradox a pat on the back for the things that they've done well with HoI3, because they have done plenty of things quite well with HoI3. I just don't feel that this is a sufficient excuse to ignore HOI3's short comings.

As an open invitation to the game devs, if there's anything I can do to help towards the resolution of many of the games weaknesses, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[unmerged(109424)]

There could be special reasons. His mom may not allowed him to do it for example.

You get a kick out of saying this, my fanboy товарищ?

First of all, it's a "HE". Second I just don't bother to register. I have no idea where my game is and I never play multiplayer due to the terrible lag in these games (Hoi2...) and I dislike mods since their usually of lower quality. No reason. This doesn't make my opinion worthless.

Where did he call you a thief or a pirate?

He just said, if you can't prove that you own the game the legitimate way, then your opinion isn't going to be worth as much.

So, if you REALLY want a dev to listen to you and write back, you should dig up your CD key and register the game.

I'm amazed at the tone some of you have been taking with King.

He's by no means some kind of god, but every answer he has given here has been a volunteer answer. He's not getting paid to do it, he's not even in the marketing department.

To make a long story short, HOI3 is pretty much his baby, and no one wants to be told they have an ugly baby!

And even when they announce that they're giving that baby some plastic surgery and teaching it new things to make it smarter, some of you still come here and trash their efforts.

I understand you feel you got burned, and I truly think he does too.

I know I'm sorry you feel that way, and I want the game to be improved as well.

Just remember, you could have invested that money in another game with no input from its fanbase and little to no chance of free patches to improve that game.

It's not wrong to be mad, but at least try to be polite and constructive while you do it.

If you really did spend the money on the game, then the least you can do is actually try to make the situation better so you can get your money's worth from the product.

The problem is we were promiced a smart and useful baby many months ago, and it is still a stupid and worthless baby.

 

[unmerged(185503)]

I get difficulty in complex programming, I do. Did my share of projects while studying Computer Science, and even the "easy" ones turned out to have quirks. What I don't get is letting marketing drones without that knowledge set deadlines for project releases.

[rant]
What I see is constantly releasing products in the late alpha/early beta stage as 1.0 versions, and going from there. HoI3 is but one example of a myriad, with version 1.3 being the first one reasonably stable, but still with major balance and UI issues (and I mean major, there's a whole thread about that). There's an important difference between glitches and major things being broken, or just not done. Complainers? By now I'm sure you know where to stick it.
[/rant]

From my point of view, it's quite simple: Programmers are a very special type of human beings. Like all of us, they tend to be lazy. But on top of that, unlike all of us, they tend to be playful perfectionists - which is even more true for the people at PI, as it seems to me. As if it weren't enough, they additionally love complexity even more than the average programmer. The result? If you don't give them hard deadlines, you never ever get a working piece of code at all.



I know what I'm talking about, as I am a marketing specialist working in the IT industry ... ;-)

 

[Shabz]

If you don't give them hard deadlines, you never ever get a working piece of code at all.

Or to say in Mr. Murphy's words: "Work expands to fill the time allocated to its completion."

 

[unmerged(154518)]

Really, I understand the OP went overboard, but the fawning worship and the ludicrous attempts to take the 'high ground' in order to earn grovel points are just as bad, if not worse. If the goal of some of the posters was to make me throw up a little in my mouth, you've succeeded.

As for Paradox 'learning a valuable lesson', I'm so very glad many of you saw fit to contribute your hard-earned cash to support their continued education. Me, I guess I'm just a selfish prick; I'd rather use my cash to *buy a working game*. But that's silly since, as many of you have made clear, expecting a working game in this oh-so-complex age from poor, beleaguered, small-time-gaming-house Paradox is just plain unreasonable!

Why, hell - let's just take it a step farther, shall we? Why don't we just all write a $50 check to Paradox, give them big hugs and hearty pats on the back, and encourage them to try their best, and perhaps give us a game, working or not, a few years down the road - if it isn't too much trouble? After all, only the Big Mean Trolls(TM) would demand anything more than that, and the only thing those 'trolls' deserve is a good whacking with the banhammer! Hey, so long as Paradox keeps up with the "bold moves" who cares what they put out? Or if? It's the thought that counts, right?

But hey, it's Christmas, and even though I'm an atheist I'll end this on a high note:

Today, Windows decided it didn't recognize my dvd drive anymore, just as I was trying to install HOI3 again (before I decided to uninstall and shelve it, which I did later). No fix under the sun worked, and my rather impressive skill set as a programmer and trouble shooter were useless; the hardware itself, it turns it, was starting to act glitchy. Time for yet another friggin' Newegg order.

But lo! All was not lost. For while Windows is a scurvy abortion that should never have seen the light of day, I only use this abomination that passes for an OS for gaming. For all other things there is Linux, and Linux is made of much sturdier stuff. Linux found the dvd drive and mounted it without too much trouble, so I decided to try something out: I copied everything off the HOI3 dvd to the Windows partition from my Linux session. Then I rebooted into Windows and tried to install HOI3 straight from this copy sitting on my Windows drive.

Normally, this is something that just doesn't work. The copy protection on most of the games out there sucks big green donkey dicks, and usually the only way you can avoid a dvd install is to get a pirated version of the game. Annoying as hell, but the gaming industry is chock full of whiny little bitches enamored with copy protection that pirates crack in days while us legit customers struggle with all the problems the ineffectual protection causes. However, in HOI3's case the game installed straight from the copy and started up without a problem.

So I'll say this: I think HOI3 blows. I mean, I think it really, really blows, and will continue to blow until perhaps patch 1.7. But the one thing that Paradox did do well is *not put any goddamn copy protection on the dvd*. Boys and girls, keep that part of the design philosophy; I hate copy protection, and it makes me furious that the pirates can play a perfectly working game just days after release while half the time I'm having serious problems because the protection on my legit game is screwing things up. No copy protection is one less problem that I, as a paying customer, have to deal with, and that is a huge plus in my book.

 

[Stafroty]

am i registerated? i own the game. still , i see game is not yet ready, and i kinda understand the business side of this quite well. its not nice tho. but its the way humanity has choosed to follow, even if its not wise.

it kind of sad that things have gotten to this, in wide area, where decicions are made with greed in mind, not wisdom. i am really sad bout this. not only in game business but in overall, in everywhere.

(i see little icon )

 

[HalfTon Midget]

Would it have been overly difficult to add a check box to remove weather from the game? Or even one to remove day / night? Or possibly a much simpler less cpu taxing supply system? Maybe 10000 provinces is simply too many for today's standard gaming rigs to handle, and after facing lag issues in the beta this number could have been reduced? Maybe it should have been designed to run on 2 cores? I really don't know what the answer is, I'm not a software developer, but I think it would be a challenge for any of the PI staff to say that they're happy with the state of the game while keeping a straight face.

I believe the main thing is the underlying game engine. It was built to use a single core, so it can't utilize a dual or quad core processor to its maximum potential. That being said, even a single core program can run fast with extremely efficient and elegant code, but with as many details that HOI3 includes it means there is a lot of code. Which King has said here and Johan has said in other threads, that Johan is working on optimizing the code to make it run faster. Also as King has said in this thread, that they have learned to not reach as high again and be more conservative.

 

[Shabz]

No copy protection is one less problem that I, as a paying customer, have to deal with, and that is a huge plus in my book.

Well, surely there are others. I mean, Paradox often go over and beyond call of duty to deliver support. Most games they publish they will continue to support and develop long after first year of publishing and not forget them, as is often the case.

While it is inexcusable and bad business practice to ship games (or any products for that matter) in the state HoI3 was upon release 1.0, they are by no means the only company that does this sort of thing... It is sad where has software industry in general got to, but you are hardpressed to find working at release, WAD software product nowadays unless it is something rather simple.

 

[Von Vampyre]

This thread was a very entertaining & informative read, only occasionally blemished by a personal Insults. Thank you so much King for responding here, on your holiday no less! Im sure its appreciated by all.

As for the comments about ai, I remember playing 1 game way back called Fire-Brigade by Panther Games, that had a very challenging ai....mind you...that was only a game based on 1 battle, Kiev Pocket 1943 (Fire-Brigade being the XLVIII Panzer Korps). I also loved the way the manual was written with comments or tips that still stick in my mind like "Batten down the hatches, its hard hat time!" or "Delay! Delay! Delay!" : p

All in all Im enjoying HoI3 very much with "warts n all".

 

[Slyguy3129]

Wow, another boo-hoo thread?

I have a Christmas wish, and it isn't peace on Earth. I'd wish people like this away.

 

[unmerged(156228)]

Wow, another boo-hoo thread?

I have a Christmas wish, and it isn't peace on Earth. I'd wish people like this away.

And God, in his infinite wisdom, would whisk them away to your house and the rest of us would have a good laugh.

 

[FireDevlin]

I will buy this game, even in its current state, once I update my computer. Right now HOI2/TRP and EU3 max me out. The only reason I throw this out there is not to make light of anyones gaming money. It IS important, but I trust Paradox to get it in better shape and I would buy it to encourage that behavior. If I sit on the sidelines too long, the train may pass me by and I would miss out on all that potential gaming goodness.

About the only games I buy anymore are PI games, and it means alot that these games are good. I just enjoy it too much.

Happy Holidays to all.

 

[unmerged(155202)]

Whine! Bitch! Moan!

QED

Good riddance you useless piece of shit.