WAD: Vichy becomes a Puppet of Germany 100%

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

Vichy becomes a Puppet of Germany 100%

1.03 NA

Event ID 2022, Vichy France - Return of occupied provinces

This event, in the file "germany.txt, includes the line:
command = { type = make_puppet which = VIC }

This causes Vichy to become a Puppet of Germany, thereby bringing Vichy in to the Axis 100% of the time. This did not occur historically.

Deleting this line fixes the problem and provides for a neutral Vichy.

 

[unmerged(11713)]

Excellent Kevin,
I was going to post about this, but wasn't aware it was hard coded; this explains why I'm always seeing Vichy divisions on the Eastern Front !

 

[GLENN]

Read the Rules

Read me file:
"Vichy France now becomes a German puppet state in the "Return of Provinces" event, but it has a purely defensive Front AI. " programed that way in 1.03

 

[King]

We can safely call this one WAD.

 

[Vulture]

Seems kinda logic when the event of 'wanting to set them up' has appeared previously. Read history books again

 

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

Originally posted by Vulture
Seems kinda logic when the event of 'wanting to set them up' has appeared previously. Read history books again

I'm sorry, are you saying Vichy joined the Axis in 1940?

BTW, the "purely defensive Front AI" doesn't keep the Vichy units IN VICHY FRANCE.

 

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

I just ran a hands off '39 game up to mid '42. I stand corrected, Vichy as a German Puppet make the Allies able to pick off Syria and other colonies. Some strange things noted:

1) The '41 scenario still has Vichy as Neutral--this then should be a BUG;
2) There are Vichy land unts outside of Vichy. I sent a saved game file to Vulture. Maybe it is an Exp. Force, however I did not recall a message on Vichy loaning troops to Germany;
3) Austrailia took Vichy Vietnam--Looks wierd with Japan next door in ex-Vichy Vietnam;
4) I THINK Vichy is fighting the allies at sea. I THINK I saw a couple of sea battles.

 

[unmerged(11713)]

Wrong Vichy no German puppet.

Originally posted by Vulture
Seems kinda logic when the event of 'wanting to set them up' has appeared previously. Read history books again

Wrong ..Vichy was created in June 40 and it remained neutral, only fighting Allies until Nov 1942 when the rest of France was occupied by the Germans. It nonsensical to have Vichy appear as an event in the game, if it automatically becomes an puppet/ province of Germany. Whats the point, their support for the Germans was limited to allowing transit to German forces in some areas e.g Syria.
Even in nov 42 the remainder of French fleet in Toulon was scuttle rather than let it into the hands of the germans. Ofcourse sadly the Vichy co-operated most fully when it came to the holocaust. The did additional contribute large war taxes to the Germans.

If this is WAD.. then is a daft idea.. it's got no historical basis.

 

[unmerged(11713)]

Re: Read the Rules

Originally posted by GLENN
Read me file:
"Vichy France now becomes a German puppet state in the "Return of Provinces" event, but it has a purely defensive Front AI. " programed that way in 1.03

I don't understand this as I've clearly routinely seen Vichy divisions on the Eastern Front.

 

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

Re: Re: Read the Rules

Originally posted by draftwarmongers
I don't understand this as I've clearly routinely seen Vichy divisions on the Eastern Front.

I "THINK" they may have been Exp. Forces.

I sent a saved game file to Vulture with Vichy on the French coast of the Channel. I hope that he/Paradox can figure this out.

 

[The Yogi]

I do not belive Vichy should be a part of the Axis or take part in the war - they were neutral, or at least as neutral as they could be, no question about that.

They did however give access to axis troops and contributed economically, so from that point of view, a puppet status seems to fit the bill nicely.

I noticed that Iraq is a british puppet without being part of the allies or entering the war. Is there any way to set up Vichy as a similar non-belligerent German puppet?

edit:

Maybe this event command could do the trick?

type = peace which = [country tag] value = [0/1] # 1 means separate peace - i.e. pull out of alliance.

 

[unmerged(11713)]

Originally posted by The Yogi
I do not belive Vichy should be a part of the Axis or take part in the war - they were neutral, or at least as neutral as they could be, no question about that.
They did however give access to axis troops and contributed economically, so from that point of view, a puppet status seems to fit the bill nicely.
I noticed that Iraq is a british puppet without being part of the allies or entering the war. Is there any way to set up Vichy as a similar non-belligerent German puppet?
edit
Maybe this event command could do the trick?
type = peace which = [country tag] value = [0/1] # 1 means separate peace - i.e. pull out of alliance.

Yes I agree with you, unfortunately I've seen Iraq troops fighting for the british in areas outside Iraq.

 

[The Yogi]

I tried to add the following line:

command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 0 }

Immediatly after the line that puppets Vichy france, and it works perfectly, Vichy remains a puppet but is now not at war with the Allies.

Actually, I was a bit mystified that this worked, since this is the German event file, and the event happens to Germany. How does the computer know that it is Vichy france that is supposed to withdraw from the war?

 

[unmerged(11982)]

Hmm about this -

Add a trigger from the vichy puppet event in the german file:

command = { type = make_puppet which = VIC }
command = { type = trigger which = 4003 }

And then add a new event to the vichy file:

event = {
             id = 4003
             random = no
             country = VIC
             
             # Triggered by 2022

             name = "Remain Neutral?"
             desc = "Will Vichy remain trully neutral?"
             style = 0
 
              action_a = {
                        name = "Side with Axis - war"
                     }
             action_b = {
                       name = "Stay Neutral - peace"
                       command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 0}
                    }
}

Will the AI sometimes choose option b? It looks like there are some random factors that effect which option will choose in other events so might be a good way to have the event take either route sometimes ... yes?
Option a has no "command" associated with it because by default it will retain the current status quo created by the original puppeting .. ie at "war" with the allies'. Will that work?

Myr first time playing with events but this seems like it should work.

Myros

 

[The Yogi]

I've been trying to make an event similar to yours but its driving me nuts. While it seems to activate alright, Vichy never seem to choose any action, and so nothing happens.

My event looks like this:

#################################################
#  Mers-El-Kebir
#################################################
event = {
	id = 4004
	random = no
	country = VIC

	#Triggered by GER 2022

	name = "British attack French ships at Mers El Kebir!"
	desc = "Fearfull that the French navy would fall in 
German hands, the British attacked French naval vessels 
anchored at Mers El Kebir. The French were outraged at the 
attack from their old allies."
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "Remain neutral despite this act of piracy."
		command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 0 }
		command = { type = leave_alliance }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Punish the English for this outrage (WAR)!"
		command = { }
	}
}

 

[unmerged(11982)]

Aye it seems the leave_alliance event command is fubar (not working).

Here's the modified event I created that does the job:

This added to the bottom of germany.txt events:

event = {
	id = 5015
	random = no
	country = GER

	trigger = {
                             event = 2022
                             puppet = { country = VIC country = GER }
                              NOT = ( event = 5015 }
                          }

	name = "Will Vichy Support the Axis?"
	desc = "Will Vichy Support the Axis?"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 3
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }

	action_a = {
		name = "OK" # Let us see what they decide
		command = { type = trigger which = 4004 } # VIC
	}
}

That just notifies Germany that Vichy may stay neutral and triggers the Vichy event. (Note the timer offset=3, this will ensure that it happens sometime within 3 days of the original puppeting)

This is added to vichy_france.txt in events:

event = {
             id = 4004
             random = no
             country = VIC
             
            # triggered by 5015

	name = "EVT_4004_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_4004_DESC"
              style = 0

             action_a = {
                       name = "ACTIONNAME4004B" # Stay mostly Neutral - peace
                       command = { type = end_puppet }
                       command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 1 }
                       command = { type = dissent value = 3 }
                     }
             action_b = {
                       name = "ACTIONNAME4004A" # Side with the Axis - war
                       command = { type = dissent value = 6 }
                    }
}

On the peace event with ENG the value should be set to 1, this will result in an automatic withdrawl from the AXIS by making a seperate peace.

The AI seems to choose option "action_a" about 95% of the time so if you want the state of war for Vichy to be the most common outcome just switch them around.

There is a bug in the game that shows "Is a member of the Axis" when examing the country even after a country has left an alliance. I verified though that this is just a display bug and they are not actualy still part of the Axis.

The only thing that remains is that Germany will still be able to move units thru Vichy (military access) I felt that was appropriate. But you could remove that with a trigger to I imagine if you felt like it.

Let me know if you have any questions or make any interesting changes to this
(oh the event number 4003 I used in the 1st example cant be used as it is used already, so changed it to 4004)

Myros

 

[Marquoz]

I've already defended this event in several other threads, but it seems I'm going to have to do it here as well. Vichy should most definitely be at war with the Allies--if it isn't, the game cannot procede historically. Here are the reasons why:

--England and Iraq attacked and conquered Vichy-controlled Syria

--England and Free France attempted to invade Dakar but were beaten off by Vichy forces

--England attacked the Vichy Fleet at Oran

--and the big one, the US and England invaded Algeria and Morocco in the massive Torch landings, which actually put more troops ashore than D-Day did. They took about 1500 casualties in the process, too, all from hostile Vichy forces.

I am firmly of the opinion that it should at least be *possible* for the war to follow its historical outlines. If Vichy is not at war with the Allies, the Torch landings are absolutely impossible. For this reason alone, a state of war is mandated.

 

[Spocky]

Originally posted by Marquoz
I've already defended this event in several other threads, but it seems I'm going to have to do it here as well. Vichy should most definitely be at war with the Allies--if it isn't, the game cannot procede historically. Here are the reasons why:

--England and Iraq attacked and conquered Vichy-controlled Syria

--England and Free France attempted to invade Dakar but were beaten off by Vichy forces

--England attacked the Vichy Fleet at Oran

--England is hunting Vichy Convoys

--England occupied Madagasskar

--and the big one, the US and England invaded Algeria and Morocco in the massive Torch landings, which actually put more troops ashore than D-Day did. They took about 1500 casualties in the process, too, all from hostile Vichy forces.

I am firmly of the opinion that it should at least be *possible* for the war to follow its historical outlines. If Vichy is not at war with the Allies, the Torch landings are absolutely impossible. For this reason alone, a state of war is mandated.

I agree with you completely.
There are only to thinks to do
- Make Vichy more passive ( In my Germanygame , thy had conquered Leningrad)
- weaken them with events and possible ( like Mers-El-Kebir )

Spocky

 

[unmerged(11982)]

I agree, as I mentioned in above all you need to do then is switch the order of the actions ... the AI chooses option 'a' almost every time so having the "support the axis" as action_a would result in your prefered option around 97% of the time (from my own testing).

My posted option above dont really help with Vichy attacking russia as later in the game I found out that inspite of Vichy supposdly leaving the axis once Germany DoW Russia Vichy was listed as at war too so they went on to invade leningrad etc anyway. So there are still many bugs in the scripting for these events. (mainly the leave_alliance event is totaly hosed)

I agree probably a preferred method would be to somehow reduce or partialy cripple the Vichy military because their supposed "defensive AI only" is a crock of ****

Myros

 

[Maximilian I]

it`s WAD. case closed.

btw.: thanks for the good argmuents for vichy being at war...